Police Begin Fingerprinting on Traffic Stops [Green Bay]

This is a discussion on Police Begin Fingerprinting on Traffic Stops [Green Bay] within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SelfDefense I know you are being sarcastic but I don't have a problem with most of it. We are already nearing a ...

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Thread: Police Begin Fingerprinting on Traffic Stops [Green Bay]

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I know you are being sarcastic but I don't have a problem with most of it. We are already nearing a cashless society. I rarely use cash. My pay is directly deposited, my investment income is automatically reinvested, my taxes are electronically filed and most of my purchases are on a credit card. We have CCWs, Social Security cards, drivers licenses, credit cards, gas cards, library cards, AAA cards, debit cards, frequent shopper cards, membership cards... Our wallets are full of little pieces of plastic. If that could be simplified by a programmable chip, it sounds like a great idea. OF course, it would be VOLUNTARY, rather than the mandate that makes your post sound like a horrible government intervention. You can instead carry all those cards, if you want to feel like you are anonymous.

    I think that parents should be able to put GPS systems on their minor children. We already have units that attach to minor's cars so parents can monitor their behavior. And GPS locators should be mandatory for all non citizens working on temporary visas so they can be located after their time has expired. They can be removed when the non citizens leave or when the child reaches majority age.

    Exactly what is your objection to advancing technology? Long for the 'good old days?'
    It has a lot to do with that keyword I bolded for you. It's all about control, choice, and freedom. The problem is that historically...everything they start out as voluntary...eventually becomes INVOLUNTARY as in REQUIRED. I admit, seatbelts save lives. There's no argument. But who are you or I to determine EVERYONE MUST wear them by OUR choice? If someone wants to take the risk, that's their CHOICE. The same can be said for fingerprinting everyone at traffic stops. At some point, it will no longer be voluntary. They're going to say..."look folks, our numbers show this stuff works, so we're going to go with it on every stop and you have no choice".

    Some of us are getting a wee bit tired of everyone else mandating we must do this or that. We like choice. We like that we make the decisions that ultimately decide our fate. The minute you start trying to step on that...We have a BIG problem. If the LEO's were part of a PRIVATE organization/corp with no government intervention I wouldn't take issue with it. The fact remains that they are part of a government entity that quite frankly has a piss-poor track record. That's not a knock soley on our government because there's no doubt we have the best one in the world. It's government in general. Unless we're VERY careful, the big dog we keep on a leash to protect us, can just as easily turn against us. Hence why we like to keep that leash short and tight.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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  3. #32
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    It has a lot to do with that keyword I bolded for you. It's all about control, choice, and freedom. The problem is that historically...everything they start out as voluntary...eventually becomes INVOLUNTARY as in REQUIRED. I admit, seatbelts save lives. There's no argument. But who are you or I to determine EVERYONE MUST wear them by OUR choice? If someone wants to take the risk, that's their CHOICE. The same can be said for fingerprinting everyone at traffic stops. At some point, it will no longer be voluntary. They're going to say..."look folks, our numbers show this stuff works, so we're going to go with it on every stop and you have no choice".

    Some of us are getting a wee bit tired of everyone else mandating we must do this or that. We like choice. We like that we make the decisions that ultimately decide our fate. The minute you start trying to step on that...We have a BIG problem. If the LEO's were part of a PRIVATE organization/corp with no government intervention I wouldn't take issue with it. The fact remains that they are part of a government entity that quite frankly has a piss-poor track record. That's not a knock soley on our government because there's no doubt we have the best one in the world. It's government in general. Unless we're VERY careful, the big dog we keep on a leash to protect us, can just as easily turn against us. Hence why we like to keep that leash short and tight.
    Thanks for bolding it for me. I was too lazy and it is an important point. I see an embedded chip like that (the technology is not quite there but it is close) to be the same as you having the choice to use money raher than a credit card.

    As to seat belts, if your not wearing a seat belt did not affect me then I have no problem with you taking risks. However, I have to pay for caring for your maimed body either directly through taxes or indirectly through insurance. It is in my best interest (and yours) if you wear a seat belt.

    And the slippery slope (voluntary to mandatory) is something of argued against repeatedly. In the United States of America, under the Constitutional Republic we have formed, we ARE the government. If we do not like a law then we change it. If we do not like a leader, we vote for someone else. If we are mandated to do something then we have decided it is best for the people of this country. Disagree? Then espouse your views, educate the people, and convince others and repea the mandate. That is the system and its has worked extremely well for over two hundred years.

    I truly do not understand the fear of our government that some here seem to have.

  4. #33
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    -"Yes, if you leave your fingerprint we can protect you from identity theft and any fraudulent activities."
    -"Cool, does that mean we can ask for ID when voting to avoid voting fraud?"
    -"You racist pig! How dare you ask for ID?!?! Don't you know minorities cannot afford a fingerprint and ID card? What are you? Republican?"
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  5. #34
    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    ......
    I truly do not understand the fear of our government that some here seem to have.
    link to your comment
    you were the one that said
    It is absolutely unconstitutional and unAmerican to have checkpoints that, without probable cause, pull over drivers and force them into compulsory testing.
    we feel the same way about fingerprinting

    same difference

    .

  6. #35
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibez View Post
    link to your comment
    you were the one that said

    we feel the same way about fingerprinting

    same difference

    .
    No, it's not the same difference.

    First, I dont fear the government because checkpoints are used. I think we need to change the authorization police are given to conduct searches without probable cause. Unfortunately, drunk driving has such horrendous consequences that 'we' have decided violating the Constitution 'in this specific case' is for the greater good. I disagree.

    Fingerprints and other forms of identification are not searches. Exactly which part of the Constitution would you argue is being violated by confirming your identity during a traffic stop?

  7. #36
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    OF course, it would be VOLUNTARY, rather than the mandate that makes your post sound like a horrible government intervention.
    Today its voluntary...tommorrow or the next day...who can tell ?

    What do you think all of this stuff is leading up to?
    We lose a little freedom here and a little freedom there,just a bit at a time, not so much that you notice, and then one day we wake up and have none. Once its gone, it gone forever. History is full of examples.

    Here is a little reference for you. I don't expect you to believe what is says, it really doesn't matter if you do or not, because nothing will change.But one thing is for sure...whether it happens a year from now, or 50 years from now....one day it wont be voluntary.


    Rev. 13.16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    At least you know where I am coming from now.

    Cheers...Im outa here.
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  8. #37
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Today its voluntary...tommorrow or the next day...who can tell ?

    What do you think all of this stuff is leading up to?
    We lose a little freedom here and a little freedom there,just a bit at a time, not so much that you notice, and then one day we wake up and have none. Once its gone, it gone forever. History is full of examples.

    Here is a little reference for you. I don't expect you to believe what is says, it really doesn't matter if you do or not, because nothing will change.But one thing is for sure...whether it happens a year from now, or 50 years from now....one day it wont be voluntary.


    Rev. 13.16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    HG,

    I tho't I picked up a reference to 'the mark of the Beast.'

    The other thing for me is watching what is happening in places like Great? Britain. Nanny state is taking away the right to defend oneself. While they don't see God-given rights the way we (and our Constitution) do, it is important to watch the slide because we could well be (are?) next.

    JMHO.
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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    +1 HotGuns
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  10. #39
    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
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    I bet in 1967, no one thought they would have to be fighting in 2007 for their RIGHT to bear Arms ( 2A )

    .

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibez View Post
    I bet in 1967, no one thought they would have to be fighting in 2007 for their RIGHT to bear Arms ( 2A )

    .
    Off topic, but in 1967 they were having the same fight we are now. The only thing different is the faces and names.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    With the new technology, Fingerprint scanners and laptops, the fingerprints can go directly to a main conputer and be checked against wants and warrents. If need be an arrest can be made right there. The original article never said if police were using fingerprint scanners or the old way of ink and paper.

  13. #42
    Member Array xmenspidey's Avatar
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    I got no problem with providing a fingerprint. It's already on the back of my DL. My only gripe is they better supply officers with those little wet naps so I don't get ink on my car interior or my clothes:)
    There’s an old and true, military motto, “Si vis pacem, para bellum” - “If you want peace, prepare for war.”

  14. #43
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibez View Post
    I bet in 1967, no one thought they would have to be fighting in 2007 for their RIGHT to bear Arms ( 2A )

    .
    I remember 1967 very well and actually see many more people bearing arms today than back then.

    As for the fingerprint with a traffic ticket it is just for those who have been accused of breaking a law. If you can't fingerprint someone for a traffic ticket then how do you justify fingerprinting a murder suspect? Both have been accused of breaking a law but neither one convicted.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Thanks for bolding it for me. I was too lazy and it is an important point. I see an embedded chip like that (the technology is not quite there but it is close) to be the same as you having the choice to use money raher than a credit card.

    As to seat belts, if your not wearing a seat belt did not affect me then I have no problem with you taking risks. However, I have to pay for caring for your maimed body either directly through taxes or indirectly through insurance. It is in my best interest (and yours) if you wear a seat belt.

    And the slippery slope (voluntary to mandatory) is something of argued against repeatedly. In the United States of America, under the Constitutional Republic we have formed, we ARE the government. If we do not like a law then we change it. If we do not like a leader, we vote for someone else. If we are mandated to do something then we have decided it is best for the people of this country. Disagree? Then espouse your views, educate the people, and convince others and repea the mandate. That is the system and its has worked extremely well for over two hundred years.

    I truly do not understand the fear of our government that some here seem to have.
    The seatbelt part i bolded is a different issue. Fix the real issue, ie the theft of your hard earned money, not violating more of someone elses rights.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    I remember 1967 very well and actually see many more people bearing arms today than back then.

    As for the fingerprint with a traffic ticket it is just for those who have been accused of breaking a law. If you can't fingerprint someone for a traffic ticket then how do you justify fingerprinting a murder suspect? Both have been accused of breaking a law but neither one convicted.
    Not all traffic stops are because you or I broke the law, but that's a fight for another day.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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