Name any crimes that FULL AUTO weapons were used... - Page 2

Name any crimes that FULL AUTO weapons were used...

This is a discussion on Name any crimes that FULL AUTO weapons were used... within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The only lawfully possessed FA crime I know of was a SWAT COP that did his wife with a .380 MAC (11?). As a SWAT ...

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Thread: Name any crimes that FULL AUTO weapons were used...

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    The only lawfully possessed FA crime I know of was a SWAT COP that did his wife with a .380 MAC (11?). As a SWAT COP he had a couple department FAs he could have used but chose his personal FA.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Anyone know about the two CIA employees that were gunned-down outside Langley? I recall those being AK's but I can't rememeber if they were full auto or not.
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  3. #18
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    There was another bank robbery in California,... Norco California I think where fully automatic weapons were used. In the 70's, the BLA used a US M3 " Grease Gun " to shoot and wound two NYPD officers and attempted to use that weapon to shoot either an Officer or a Sgt. in San Francisco. The famous LAPD shootout with the Patty Hearst kidnappers, the SLA, used M-2 Carbines. It certainly isn't a huge number,... they are out there in the hands of people who should not have them but somehow I doubt that will ever change.
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; December 31st, 2007 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Deleted a language workaround

  4. #19
    Member Array retiredswine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnfreak View Post
    Apparently you haven't heard that S. Florida is being over-run by full-auto AK47's. The sole reason for this is that the past few do-nothing congresses have failed to re-authorize the Assault Weapons Ban.

    Wait, let me check my sources on that............Yep, just as I thought. Nevermind.
    I would take issue with that. I worked there for 22 years and recovered two fully automatic weapons,.... both Mac 10's, one silenced, the other not. Never saw an AK used although I am sure they are and recently saw one used to shoot officers.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    What was that deal with the federal agents getting killed at Quantico, VA? Was that auto fire?
    I think that was CIA at Langley, VA
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I think that was CIA at Langley, VA

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  7. #22
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    the SLA used illegally modified M1 carbines - they were not M-2s (this is from recent documentary on the shootout on the History Channel)

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    Crime with Legally Owned Machine Guns

    In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the BATF. (Zawitz, Marianne,Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime [PDF].) About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police departments and other governmental agencies (Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.)

    Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.
    ---
    Thanks to the staff of the Columbus, Ohio Public Library for the details of the Waller case.

    Source: talk.politics.guns FAQ, part 2.

    The other homicide, possibly involving a legally owned machine gun, occurred on September 14, 1992, also in Ohio (source).

    In Targeting Guns, Kleck cites the director of BATF testifying before Congress that he knew of less than ten crimes that were committed with legally owned machine guns (no time period was specified). Kleck says these crimes could have been nothing more than violations of gun regulations such as failure to notify BATF after moving a registered gun between states.

    Crime Involving Illegally Owned Machine Guns

    Again in Targeting Guns, Kleck writes, four police officers were killed in the line of duty by machine guns from 1983 to 1992. (713 law enforcement officers were killed during that period, 651 with guns.)

    In 1980, when Miami's homicide rate was at an all-time high, less than 1% of all homicides involved machine guns. (Miami was supposedly a "machine gun Mecca" and drug trafficking capital of the U.S.) Although there are no national figures to compare to, machine gun deaths were probably lower elsewhere. Kleck cites several examples:

    Of 2,200 guns recovered by Minneapolis police (1987-1989), not one was fully automatic.

    A total of 420 weapons, including 375 guns, were seized during drug warrant executions and arrests by the Metropolitan Area Narcotics Squad (Will and Grundie counties in the Chicago metropolitan area, 1980-1989). None of the guns was a machine gun.

    16 of 2,359 (0.7%) of the guns seized in the Detroit area (1991-1992) in connection with "the investigation of narcotics trafficking operations" were machine guns.

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  9. #24
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    So far this is going as I anticipated it.........It just doesn't happen like the anti's & the MSM would have the believe.

    I'm going to make it a habit of every time I see some ner-do-well 'journalist' gets his/her facts wrong I'm sending a nasty gram to them. Maybe a few will get educated on a subject BEFORE they write about it.

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  10. #25
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    I'm not sure you can count this as a crime in your reference but in Charlotte, NC around 1990 two young girls were killed at Carowinds by some fellows target shooting about a mile away. Turned out than they had modified a gun to be an automatic. One was charged with manufacturing an automatic rifle and served additional time for that. Seems like two of them got 2 years and the other 5. I forget the details but it was very near my mother-in-laws house so I took extra interest in it.

  11. #26
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    It just goes to show that crime with full-auto is so rare, that you have a much better chance of being bitten by a black mamba, in a elevator on the 13th floor of the Empire State building, on Friday the 13th, than being a victim of a full auto crime.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    The shootings outside CIA Headquarters were with a semi automatic. He just walked between cars stopped at the traffic light in front of the gate.
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  13. #28
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    Enter The Devil's Advocate

    It doesn't happen because they are banned as they should be. People can't have them so criminals have no opportunity to steal them. Keep the assault weapon ban in place and you will continue to see very few crimes with automatic machine guns. Nobody needs a machine gun to shoot elk, nobody needs a assault weapon just to shoot pictures of Osama. If you want to play with big boy guns join the military.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesnofoa View Post
    Enter The Devil's Advocate

    It doesn't happen because they are banned as they should be. People can't have them so criminals have no opportunity to steal them. Keep the assault weapon ban in place and you will continue to see very few crimes with automatic machine guns. Nobody needs a machine gun to shoot elk, nobody needs a assault weapon just to shoot pictures of Osama. If you want to play with big boy guns join the military.
    Counter to that counterpoint would be the real world results of countries where there is a near complete ban on citizen ownership of firearms of all sorts (full and semi automatic) and yet following said bans gun crimes and crime victimization rates have increased in short order doubling, tripling, and greater, and staying at those elevated levels for a decade or longer.
    Citizens in specific countries such as England and Australia being respectively numbers 3 and 1 worldwide toward crime victimization per capita have found that gun bans and reduction of criminal access to guns and thus a reduction in crime does not reconcile.

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesnofoa View Post
    Enter The Devil's Advocate

    It doesn't happen because they are banned as they should be. People can't have them so criminals have no opportunity to steal them. Keep the assault weapon ban in place and you will continue to see very few crimes with automatic machine guns. Nobody needs a machine gun to shoot elk, nobody needs a assault weapon just to shoot pictures of Osama. If you want to play with big boy guns join the military.
    Just for the fun of it. What does someone NEED to shoot pictures of Osama. .45 ACP, 9mm, .32, .22, rubber band and a paper clip? The argument as to what one needs is nonsensical.

    Also just for the fun of it. Automatic weapons were available only after background check and $200 fee before AWB, during AWB, and after AWB. (National Firearms Act, 1934) What effect did AWB have on automatic weapons? Answer - None.
    George

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