Who can afford the ammo anyway?
This is a discussion on Name any crimes that FULL AUTO weapons were used... within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Who can afford the ammo anyway?...
I really don't have an opinion on automatic weapons one way or the other except to say that in the hands of private citizens it is about as dumb as anything I know. All that expense for 3 seconds of body rattling thrill. As a gun dealer told me, a high capacity magazine just allows you to waste more ammo faster. An automatic allows you to waste a bunch of ammo in a short amount of time but it's your money so go for it.
I never did hear if it was confirmed that this guy had a full-auto AK-47 in Idaho, earlier in 2007...
Investigation looks into Idaho shooter's arsenal
By John K. Wiley
7:14 p.m. May 23, 2007
MOSCOW, Idaho – Courthouse shooter Jason Hamilton was supposed to surrender his firearms after a conviction for domestic assault, but the law doesn't provide for a search that might have turned up the high-powered assault rifles he used to kill three others and himself, a police official said Wednesday.
The 36-year-old janitor, who moved from the Boise area in the late 1990s, fatally shot himself in a Presbyterian church early Sunday after killing his wife, a police officer and a church sexton, wounding three other men and pouring more than 100 bullets into a county courthouse, authorities said.
Idaho State Police investigators learned Tuesday that Hamilton had purchased the AK-47 assault rifle from a federally licensed firearms dealer in Harvard, Idaho, in late 2004 or early 2005, before he was in trouble with the law, Assistant Moscow Police Chief David Duke told The Associated Press.
The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives field office in Spokane, Wash., was checking Wednesday whether paperwork the dealer filed was proper, Duke said.
The AK-47 was a stock automatic weapon and had not been modified, Duke said.
Julianne Marshall, an ATF spokeswoman in Seattle, said she did not have information and could not comment on the Hamilton case.
But because the fully automatic AK47 is classified as a machine gun under the National Firearms Act, a purchaser would have to buy it from a registered seller or firearms dealer, pay a $200 tax to transfer the registration, and pass an ATF background check, she said.
The application of someone convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence would be rejected, she said. Also, the law requires a registered gun owner convicted of such a crime to transfer the gun to someone else.
Hamilton also used a semiautomatic Springfield M-1A rifle, Duke said.
That weapon had been purchased by telephone or over the Internet and delivered to a Moscow-area sporting goods store, where Hamilton picked it up, Duke said.
Both weapons were purchased legally before Hamilton was convicted of domestic assault on his girlfriend in 2006, Duke said Wednesday. Authorities also found several other guns in a locker in Hamilton's home near Moscow.
The investigation focused Wednesday on how Hamilton, who apparently briefly flirted with the white supremacist Aryan Nations group, could have amassed such an arsenal despite a series of run-ins with the law.
Because Hamilton's conviction was for a misdemeanor, parole or probation officers were not required to search his home for prohibited weapons, Duke said.
Hamilton's name was placed on a national database that would have blocked attempts to purchase weapons after his conviction, but guns he purchased before that date would not show up on the list, Duke said.
Also in the home, where the body of Hamilton's wife, Crystal Hamilton, was found after the shootings, were a shotgun, .22-caliber rifle and a .22-caliber handgun, Duke said. The investigation was looking into whether the guns were registered in Hamilton's name, or his wife's, Duke said.
Federal law prohibits anyone who is “mentally defective” from purchasing a gun, but Idaho is among 28 states which do not share mental health information with the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System based in Clarksburg, W.Va. Hamilton had been screened by mental health professionals after an unsuccessful suicide attempt in February.
Duke said the investigation into Hamilton's ties to the Aryan Nations shows he was not an active member.
Federal agents from the ATF, the FBI and the Latah County Sheriff's Department who searched his home found an Aryan Nations flag, literature and an enrollment certificate that had been filled out in 2002, Duke said.
“He apparently attended a meeting and completed the certificate,” Duke said. “After that date, there were no connections that we can trace.”
FBI interviews of Hamilton's family and acquaintances turned up no evidence that he was active in the white supremacist organization, or attended any other meetings, Duke said.
All the victims of last weekend's shooting were white, Duke said.
Does the crazy Soldier using his M-16 (or was it AR-15?) at Ft Bragg in, like 1995 or so, count? He shot and killed several other Soldiers while they were doing morning PT.
Sorry - wife is mad, so I don't have time to peruse the internet for the story...
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." Frederick Douglass 1818 -1895
I don't know how many have fired full auto; but, it takes skill and practice to be effective. More money and time than dirt bags are willing to spend.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
Most of the time that reporters mention automatric weapons, they are only 'semi-' correct.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
well I think press and media hype requires that they sensationalize everything and as such semi-automatic guns are now just Automatic and Assault Weapons. You can't blame some people for believing everything they see, read and hear especially when the media reports are puppeted by anti-gun senators, representatives and lobbyists who obviously have no clue either.
I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.
For anybody that feels that some one doesn't need or should have a full automatic weapon, remember this, there are people that feel YOU don't need to carry a gun, let alone own one!!!
I think I heard this somewhere:
"We stand together, or we fall together"
Ruger LC9 (when the girlfriend lets me carry her gun)
"First Duty is To Remember"
I don't need a 4x4 truck for daily life, but I've got one. I don't need a sports car, but I've got one. If all we ever got out of life was what we needed, it wouldn't be a very interesting world...
However, keep the full auto stories coming, they're quite interesting... Also, I seem to remember a cop in NJ losing it and killing his neighbors(?) with an issue MP5 in 2000 or so... Details are hazy for me, does anyone remember this?
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
Do I notice a trend where the alleged full-auto shooter was lawfully in possession of a Class III (military or LEO)?
F/A pretty much "is what it is." Even during the gangster heydays, overall, crimes commited with them were comparatively rare, and performed by repeat offenders.
Every year, the service has a certain number of "training accidents", and frankly if they happen on the range or in the field, that's usually all that is said. Again, more an issue of availibility(of any type of weapon), and the two incidents I know of used a FA weapon, set on semi.
The common misperception is that FA is somehow "more deadly." I would rather be shot at by a Fudd with FA than a determined individual with a bolt gun. FA's benefit comes in suppressive fire, or in a high cyclic rate, putting multiple rounds in a target with the same trigger pull one would use in semi. The MP5 gives nice 3-4 shot groups used this way. With a mag dump, you could kill several people in an elevator, but in any environment that allows movement, it would be more luck than anything.
Equally, gangbangers aren't complete idiots. IME, FA has been used as a "time on target maximizer"- getting a mass of ammo into a confined space to inflict maximum damage in the least time. Otherwise, stolen semis and revos are fine- why risk the extra jail time...?
Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution
Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family
We pulled many "auto" weapons off the street. Most were semi's, and a few had the "burst" trigger assembly. But in 20 years, I never saw a true fully-automatic come off the street.