LEOSA of 2004 and the US Coast Guard

LEOSA of 2004 and the US Coast Guard

This is a discussion on LEOSA of 2004 and the US Coast Guard within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Ok, I have some questions about the LEOSA Bill. I've been reading about it for a while now and have concluded that I fall under ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Exclamation LEOSA of 2004 and the US Coast Guard

    Ok, I have some questions about the LEOSA Bill. I've been reading about it for a while now and have concluded that I fall under it. I am (1)"an employee of a governmental agency"; (2) "is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law"; (3) has "statutory powers of arrest"; (4) "is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm"; (5) "is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency"; (6) "meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm"; and (7) "is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

    My concern is this: I believe, but am unsure will try to find out today, that my Commandant said we cannot use this Bill. I was under the assumption that Congress authority was higher but am unsure. Also at the bottom of this page, (Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) is a memorandum from the attorney general. In it on the 3rd page within the paragraph: It is important to note that the Act does not supersede existing agency regulations or policies limiting, restricting, conditioning, or otherwise affecting the carrying of concealed firearms. The Act does preempt and supersede inconsistent state laws and local ordinances, whether criminal or civil. It does not prohibit any component from taking any appropriate disciplinary action for any violation of its existing regulations or policies. It says it doesn't supersede any EXISTING agency regulations. So that means that if the regulation (if it exists)would have to have been augmented before the date of the memo from the Attorney General correct? My sister is in law school now and I asked the same question. Maybe somebody can shed some light on this subject for me? Thanks in advance.

    Hopefully I can carry without the need to get a permit....if so this will be me:


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    IIRC the military works for the executive branch (officers are appointed/commissioned by the President etc)

    The commandant is the chief executive of your branch and as such HE determines the "rules" for your branch - congress expressly stated this in the subpart you gave...

    this act was intended for "civilian" LEOs

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    From what I understand, I'm not a lawyer and I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, the Coast Guard is part of the United States Military. I believe it is commonly referred to as, "The Knee Deep Navy."

    Being you are part of the Military you would not be "covered" under LEOSA. Yes, the Coast Guard plays a vital and necessary role in a law enforcement function in today's society, but LEOSA was designed, as I understand it, for "non-military" LEO's.

    Instead of getting advice from the errornet why don't you go up the chain of command in your legal department and take it all the way up to Washington? This way you will get answers from the horse's mouth so to speak. This way, if you do get a "legal beagle" to say in writing that you are covered under LEOSA you can start carrying off duty and not have to worry. Just don't "broadcast" it or people will start looking in to it.

    Take care, stay safe, and keep your knickers dry.

    Biker

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Well technically we are now Homeland security...we are the biggest part of Homeland Security

  5. #5
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    Probably best to get a state permit anyway. Local LE are not going to be able to make a legal determination on this type of issue. you could wind up in the court system if you get caught carrying , even if your legal dept . says you can carry.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  6. #6
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    Department of Transportation

    Originally the Coast Guard was under the Secretary of Transportation except during time of war then they came under the Department of the Navy.

    Now as stated they are under Homeland Defense/Security.

    Eric
    USN Retired

  7. #7
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    The way I understand it is that LEOSA does not cover the Military.

    If your duties in the Coast Guard include carrying a weapon full time, then as a Federal employee you are exempt from state laws anyway and carrying is not an issue.
    For most Military, carrying a weapon full time must be a part of their assigned duties.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  8. #8
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    HotGuns you're quite correct, LEOSA does not cover military.

    1 I am a employee of the goverment. Most branches use their SSN to identify their members. We use EMPLIDS...Employee Id numbers

    2 Coast Guard has the authority under 14 USC 89 to search, examine, arrest, seize, inspect and inquire. Our Boarding Officers also have Customs authority in certain cases Major Statutory Authorities

    3 We have 2 types of Federal law enforcement officers in the USCG. BTM (boarding team members) and BO (Boarding Officers). BTMs do not have the statutory power to arrest but can be directed to by the "qualified" BO

    4 To be a BTM or BO you must first pass a Basic qualification once, unless your qualification lapses, then every 6 months after you must requalify on a Practical pistol course. Also needed is a JPC (judgemental pistol course) which must be done annually ( i believe, maybe more often). From what I have read this is more frequent that most police stations (again what I have read, no proof). We also need to do this one the Remington 870P, and M-16..basic and practical, no jpc

    5 I have a clear record with the CG with no disciplinary actions against me.

    6 I am 26 years old and have no criminal record. I have purchase guns in NC to include a handgun.

    As far as the memo I was talking about given by the Commandant..there is no such memo that I can find. I will be speaking we a friends father about it since he is a member of the Commandants body guards.

    From my research there is no reg. from Commandant as of yet that tells us that we can't. I can see it happening, but as of yet nothing.

    I do see where some people think it may not be a good idea and in certain cases I can see where they come from (fresh 21 year olds that start carrying because its "cool") but for the most part, the CG decides who can carry and who cant.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    LEOSA is for law enforcement officers that include city, country, state, and federal, who are active or retired.

    The Coast Guard serves the roll of both Military and civilian maritime law enforcement, but I would highly recommend (as others have said) to ask you commanding officer.

    Think of it this way. Carrying a concealed weapon without a CCL or LEO Badge is a felony. Do ya want to chance being discharged from the Coast Guard and spending a couple years behind bars?

  10. #10
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    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no, you cannot carry under your USCG status... and I wouldnt want to anyway if I were you. I'll bet you a shiny new car that CG regulations specifically address carrying off duty under their umbrella as a big NO NO.

    At best, your experiance in the CG will quailify you to obtain a permit without taking a class. A big part of way an LEO can carry the way they can carry now is legal issues we get trained/updated on a regular basis, and the legal rep. and liability coverage that we get (and pay for) should we get into an incident. I dont think the USCG has that for offduty or retired employees.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #11
    Member Array corncob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no, you cannot carry under your USCG status... and I wouldnt want to anyway if I were you. I'll bet you a shiny new car that CG regulations specifically address carrying off duty under their umbrella as a big NO NO.
    Agreed. Big no no for the active duty guys.

    BTW- I'm Coast Guard Aux and even with a CCW you cannot carry while in auxiliary uniform(exception being LEOs who are required to carry a weapon 24/7.)

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Well Comdt. hasn't said anything about it. And the MSST teams are saying that u can. District Legals are also getting questions about it..so we will see

    As far as civilian maritime law officers. We are Federal law enforcement officers. In fact if someone inpedes in our boardings its a federal offense...makins us FLEOs

  13. #13
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    Yes, you are a FLEO... no doubt about it. I'm pretty sure the folks that are considered FLEO in the USCGR have to be local LEO's already, like the PSU guys. The full time guys go through a federal police academy (I think...) But the agency you work for be it a local, state or federal operation has the final say so of what and when you carry. They can put restrictions on you. If the USCG does or not, you would know more about that that any of us.
    Last edited by SIXTO; January 31st, 2008 at 09:59 PM.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #14
    Member Array rathos's Avatar
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    Regardless if you are "technically" under homeland security, if you are a true LEO status in the military they give you a special commission card and send you to a federal law enforcement academy. The card states you are authorized by the DOD to carry a concealed weapon anywhere (including airplanes) It is a large card brown in color (at least it used to be) and has your picture on it. If you don't have one of these you are not allowed to carry concealed without getting a concealed permit.
    ‘‘To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.’’

    — George Mason

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    rathos...we arent DOD...we're DHS. The card used to be given out no it is no longer.

    Where did u get this information? It says nothing about this on the Bill, or the subsequent Memorandum from the Attorney General.

    I wrote the attorney general and asked for some information about it.

    Here are multiple pages stating that the Coast Guard in Fact ARE Federal Law Enforcement officers:
    Criminal Law and Procedure - Google Book Search
    Coast Guard Law Enforcement Jobs
    U.S. Coast Guard Maritime Law Enforcement Academy Charleston Training Programs — Federal Law Enforcement Training Center

    So yes we are Federal Law Enforcement Officers.

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