OK, These four are Darwin Nominees

This is a discussion on OK, These four are Darwin Nominees within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Since it is a bit graphic... (maybe not since you don't see anything after the fact...literally) I won't even post the link. Go to LiveLeak.com ...

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Thread: OK, These four are Darwin Nominees

  1. #1
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    OK, These four are Darwin Nominees

    Since it is a bit graphic... (maybe not since you don't see anything after the fact...literally) I won't even post the link. Go to LiveLeak.com and search US Army Aco 25 Cav Cis With IED. It is Darwinism caught on video.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    They're trying to remove an IED and are presumably fighting for our side in doing so. I sure wish they'd had standoff equipment to use, but doing it their way takes more balls than I'll ever have.

    I have a hard time making fun of dead soldiers on our side, even if it was probably preventable. A lot of war deaths would be preventable if soldiers weren't willing to take risks, but it's that willingness to take risks that wins wars.

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    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    That was just crazy, what were they thinking?
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    dnowell, we are not talking about preventable accidents. This was a dumb action that was very preventable by just doing nothing and waiting for the proper personnel to arrive. Nobody was in immediate danger so there was no reason to go poking an artillery shell with an AK. IMHO they died under the influence of a macho overdose.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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    There was nothing around it. Maybe I don't get it, but why didn't they just blow it up? Why would you mess around with that?
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

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    Well that was interesting! As an EOD type I'd like to thank them for keeping me out of harm's way.

    As to why, who knows...... We responded to a call in Korea that a farmer was sawing in a bomb in his rice paddy, when we arrived there was nothing but a smoking water filled hole!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    how about stupid
    Jack dog

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    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    "I have a hard time making fun of dead soldiers on our side, even if it was probably preventable. A lot of war deaths would be preventable if soldiers weren't willing to take risks, but it's that willingness to take risks that wins wars"
    Bingo. Watching someone who is on my side die in an explosion is not my idea of entertainment. During my Army EOD career we did not have robots, unless you called a junior member of your unit a robot. Came close to getting blown away myself a couple of times while disarming IEDs. Had several friends who were killed by IEDs, two of them in Illinois, the USA.

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    Sig, with all due respect, Did you go around poking a device with a rifle? I am guessing not because you are here with us (Thank God.) I understand you concern and disgust, but the sad fact is that they died stupid and we would and have criticized gun owners who have done stupid things and cause them to die.
    Remember the DEA guy with the ND? "I am the only one in this room ....." BANG! He did not get a pass 'cause he was LEO. Same applies here.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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    Maybe they were doing the best they could with the knowledge they had.

    I'm not trying to excuse anything, but how does making them sound like they were stupid, prevent the next mishap? It doesn't. We don't even know the whole story. We have no idea what circumstances they were working under or why.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    That just wasn't smart. I'd have waited for the bomb squad to arrive. There are surely safer ways to dismantle an IED.
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    I have a pretty amazing - and equally gruesome - story about extracting an ordnance cache that was in such bad shape the EOD wouldn't touch it. We couldn't blow it in place, so locals were hired to extract and move it. Well, as this video demonstrates, courage doesn't overcome a lack of knowledge when it comes to explosives...

    On the other hand, after months and months of handling the stuff, I found my guys were getting a bit cavalier about it, too: prying rockets out of the ice by using other rockets for example, digging UXO out of everywhere by hand with just a little less than optimal care for their technique, and so on. Just like with firearms (perhaps more so, eh?) complacency with UXO is a dangerous thing...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    During my Army EOD career we did not have robots, unless you called a junior member of your unit a robot.
    Ahhhh, the old Mk I Mod 0 Remote PFC!

    Were you in when the bomb suit came in? I retired before those hit the field. The last year I was in (85) they wanted us to wear flak jackets and steel pot on calls......... That went over REAL big!
    Rick

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Why did the eye in the sky not call down to those guys and tell them to back off?
    They joked and laughed as they dug at it including the one guy using his rifle barrel but otherwise did nothing to intercede. When it goes off though they then call in for assistance and a purposeless medivac.
    Those were native people working for us sporting our gear and very likely atleast one had a radio. Call down and advise hey guys don't dicker with that wait for specailists...or simply drive/walk around the thing off the beaten path.

    - Janq
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    Janq - It's obvious that those volunteers/militia were working with the full knowledge and consent of the US ground commander, it wouldn't be the air units place to intercede even if they could communicate directly (which is very doubtful - we don't usually give those guys the sorts of comms that would be required, and it's unlikely that any of those 4 spoke English in any case.) It may sound callous, but that was the job for those 4 guys at the time, and it isn't up to some helo pilot who just happens to be watching to change the job that the ground commander has set up.

    My best guess is that those militiamen had done this sort of thing in the past, as IEDs and UXO aren't exactly rare over there. Using the weapon as a pry is dumb only in so far as it's bad for the weapon - once you've decided to pry, the tool is of little import. In this case, they hit something they weren't expecting - an anti-tamper devise, a secondary IED of some sort, or what have you. The results are evident.

    As for waiting for EOD - there just aren't that many of these guys. We had an EOD team assigned to my BN, and the wait time was usually measured in DAYS, not in hours. It was for this reason - no one wants to babysit a cache in BG territory for days on end waiting for an EOD tech - that I spent so much time hauling and moving ordnance all over A-stan...lol
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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