Jihadists and Children Suicide Bombings

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    Post Jihadists and Children Suicide Bombings

    Wall Street Journal
    How al Qaeda Will Perish
    March 25, 2008; Page A22
    By BRET STEPHENS

    Do minors require their parents' consent to become suicide bombers? Believe it or not, this is the subject of an illuminating and bitter debate among the leading theoreticians of global jihad, with consequences that could be far-reaching.

    On March 6, Al-Sahab, the media arm of al Qaeda, released a 46-minute video statement titled "They Lied: Now Is the Time to Fight." The speaker is Mustafa Ahmed Muhammad Uthman Abu-al-Yazid, 52, an Egyptian who runs al Qaeda's operations in Afghanistan, and the speech is in most respects the usual mix of earthly grievances, heavenly promises and militant exhortations. It's also an urgent call for recruits.

    "We call on the fathers and mothers not to become a barrier between their children and paradise," says Abu-Al-Yazid. "If they disagree who should first join the jihad to go to paradise, let them compete, meaning the fathers and the children. . . . Also, we say to the Muslim wives, do not be a barrier between your husbands and paradise." Elsewhere in the message, he makes a "special call to the scholars and students seeking knowledge. . . . The jihad arenas are in dire need of your knowledge and the doors are open before you to bring about the virtue of teaching and jihad."

    These particular appeals are no accident. Last year, imprisoned Egyptian radical Sayyed Imam Al-Sharif, a.k.a. "Dr. Fadl," published "The Document of Right Guidance for Jihad Activity in Egypt and the World." It is a systematic refutation of al Qaeda's theology and methods, which is all the more extraordinary considering the source. Sayyed Imam, 57, was the first "emir" of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, many of whose members (including his longtime associate Ayman al-Zawahiri) later merged with Osama bin Laden and his minions to become al Qaeda. His 1988 book, "Foundations of Preparation for Holy War," is widely considered the bible of Salafist jihadis.

    Now he has recanted his former views. "The alternative" to violent jihadism, he says in an interview with the pan-Arab daily Al-Hayat (translated by Memri), "is not to kill civilians, foreigners and tourists, destroy property and commit aggression against the lives and property of those who are inviolable under the pretext of jihad. All of this is forbidden."

    Sayyed Imam is emphatic on the subject of the moral obligations of the would-be jihadist. "One who lacks the resources [to fight jihad] is forbidden to acquire money through forbidden means, like [burglary]," he says, adding that "Allah does not accept martyrdom as atonement for a mujahid's debts." As for a child's obligations toward his parents, he adds that "it is not permitted to go out to fight jihad without the permission of both parents . . . because acting rightly with one's parents is an individual obligation, and they have rights over their sons."

    "This has become pandemic in our times," he adds in a pointedly non-theological aside. "We find parents who only learn that their son has gone to fight jihad after his picture is published in the newspapers as a fatality or a prisoner."

    These "Revisions," as Sayyed Imam's book is widely known in Arab intellectual circles, elicited a harsh and immediate response from unreconstructed jihadists. "What kind of guidance does the 'Document' offer?" asked al Qaeda commander Abu Yahyha Al-Libi in a March 9 Internet posting. "Is it guidance that tells the mujahadeen and the Muslims: 'Restrain yourselves and [allow] us [Arab regimes] to shed your blood'?"

    Even more sarcastic was Zawahiri himself. "Do they now have fax machines in Egyptian jail cells?" he asked. "I wonder if they're connected to the same line as the electric-shock machines." Zawahiri then penned a 215-page rebuttal to Sayyed Imam, whom he accuses of serving "the interests of the Crusader-Zionist alliance with the Arab leaders."

    The gravamen of the hardliners' case against Sayyed Imam is that he has capitulated (either through force or persuasion) to the demands of his captors, and has become, in effect, their stooge. The suspicion seems partly borne out by Sayyed Imam's conspicuous renunciation of any desire to overthrow the Egyptian regime. One Turkish commentator, Dogu Ergil, notes that "in prison many jihadist inmates were encouraged by the Interior Ministry and security apparatus to engage in religious dialogue with clerics from al-Azhar," a Sunni religious university overseen by the state. Mr. Ergil calls this part of a deliberate "counter-radicalization program" by the Egyptian government.

    But whatever Sayyed Imam's motives, it is the neuralgic response by his erstwhile fellow travelers that matters most. There really is a broad rethink sweeping the Muslim world about the practical utility -- and moral defensibility -- of terrorism, particularly since al Qaeda began targeting fellow Sunni Muslims, as it did with the 2005 suicide bombings of three hotels in Amman, Jordan. Al Qaeda knows this. Osama bin Laden is no longer quite the folk hero he was in 2001. Reports of al Qaeda's torture chambers in Iraq have also percolated through Arab consciousness, replacing, to some extent, the images of Abu Ghraib. Even among Saudis, a recent survey by Terror Free Tomorrow finds that "less than one in ten Saudis have a favorable opinion of Al Qaeda, and 88 percent approve the Saudi military and police pursuing Al Qaeda fighters."

    No less significant is that the rejection of al Qaeda is not a liberal phenomenon, in the sense that it represents a more tolerant mindset or a better opinion of the U.S. On the contrary, this is a revolt of the elders, whether among the tribal chiefs of Anbar province or Islamist godfathers like Sayyed Imam. They have seen through (or punctured) the al Qaeda mythology of standing for an older, supposedly truer form of Islam. Rather, they have come to know al Qaeda as fundamentally a radical movement -- the antithesis of the traditional social order represented by the local sovereign, the religious establishment, the head of the clan and, not least, the father who expects to know the whereabouts of his children.

    It would be a delightful irony if militant Islam were ultimately undone by a conservative, Thermidor-style reaction. That may not be the kind of progress most of us imagined or hoped for. But it is progress of a kind.

    Is there a crack forming in the Jihadist foundation?

    This article was obviously written for Western exposure by a Westerner, but it does make some very interesting points.

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    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    however murdering innocent civileans, and destroying their property as well as killing women and children are strictly forbidden methods of conducting jihad as mohummed taught. that said i still beleive if he were alive today he'd have been first in line at the recruiting station following 9/11.
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
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    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    What I don't understand is why we keep letting them broadcast!!
    Using that forum to tell Idiots to blow us up!!
    Take the station out!!!
    If that's what they want to broadcast, they could etch it in stone.
    They hate us already, TAKE THAT STATION OUT!!!
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

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    Going to paradise for 32 virgins (wonder where they found them all?...the virgins that is...), doing it all for Allah...

    I wonder why all the LEADERS never get in line for the BIG sacrifice?
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Member Array Lange's Avatar
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    Unfortunatly...modern Islam is heavily based on division. The myriad of problems we have are often caused by minor theological differances that create cracks and rifts. A unified Muslim community would probably be far less volatile (look at Catholicsm which seems to be somewhat unified).

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    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    More people have died for their beliefs then any other reason through out time!
    Just 400 hundred years ago 100,000 women were burned alive for being witches!!
    They have been fighting in one way or the other for thousands of years,and there not going to stop!!
    Iran supplies the funds, and weapons and they recruit brain dead dirt farmers to blow themselves up!
    We are a very young nation,but we are able to learn, adapt,better ourselves!
    It boils down to you can't fix stupid!

    Ahmadinejad sparked widespread international condemnation in October when he called for Israel to be "wiped off the map."

    He wants to be the one to start Armageddon, and all the leaders in the world can talk all they want,and it's not going to change the fact that he has said his people will see a world without America and Israel!


    In Christian theology, Armageddon (Greek αρμαγεδδων; [armageddôn] also spelled Har-Magedon in some modern English translations; a.k.a Mount of Megiddo), is the final battle (or Campaign) between God and the forces of righteousness, and Satan (whose name means 'adversary'), also known as the Devil.
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Al Queda and others who promise paradise for suicide bombers know that they are lying. According to the Koran, blown to pieces bodies never see paradise.

    They have also ran out of virgins:


    "Copyright © 2005 - mickterry.com


    CHORUS:
    We're running out of virgins in Heaven.
    It's a crisis that's Olympic-sized.
    What with all these suicide bombings,
    the reserves have been vaporized.
    We're running out of virgins in Heaven.
    The suppliers just can't keep up.
    The demand is overwhelming:
    ev'rybody wants to blow themselves up.

    1: Who knew it would be such a hit?
    A runaway huge success?
    We sure as hell didn't count on this.
    It's a real logistical mess.
    Projections were just for a few.
    Response has been way too high.
    Whoever came up with seventy
    must have been clear out of his mind.
    CHORUS:

    2: Somebody is going to get fired.
    There's going to be hell to pay.
    You can't just run up a deficit
    and expect to get clean away.
    Back-ordered for several months,
    out-sourced to fulfill demand,
    looks like someone did miscalculate
    and we'll need to scale back again.

    BRIDGE:
    You think your religion's got a monopoly
    on Heaven & what it all means?
    We've got everyone claiming us as their own
    & expecting us to fill all their needs.
    Self-inflicted martyrs here & stonings there.
    All the Saints preserve us!
    What did we poor innocent angels do
    that we ever should deserve this?

    3: We're getting a whole lot of guys
    in pieces down at the gates,
    demanding we give them their full count.
    They refuse to take sixty-eight.
    A voucher won't do any good.
    Those girls better not be bruised.
    It seems that's all martyrs come here for
    & nobody wants a virgin that's used.
    CHORUS:"

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    Member Array Lange's Avatar
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    Most of these people aren't stupid...they just lack education. Heck, half of them can't even read the language they speak. Not because they are inherently any less intelligent by race, it's just waht they were taught.

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    BAC
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    Am I the only one who found the parental consent amusing? Makes me think of it like a bunch of kids whose friend can't come out and play because he's grounded.


    -B

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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Am I the only one who found the parental consent amusing? Makes me think of it like a bunch of kids whose friend can't come out and play because he's grounded.


    -B
    Kind of ironic, eh?

    I found it interesting due to the implied rift betwixt and between these folks whom usually have the common ground of USA hatred to bound their actions.

    I hope the divergence between the terrorists and the more mainstream grows - a marginalized terrorist wing would lose ground pretty quickly.

    Based on the current environment in Iraq, the new tactics appear to be gaining traction, and increased marginalization of the terrorists is a win-win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Going to paradise for 32 virgins (wonder where they found them all?...the virgins that is...), doing it all for Allah...
    I thought it was 72 virgins.

    But as to where they found them, I don't think anyone stipulated these would be female virgins. Its probably just 72 fellow suicide bombers.

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    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morintp View Post
    I thought it was 72 virgins.

    But as to where they found them, I don't think anyone stipulated these would be female virgins. Its probably just 72 fellow suicide bombers.
    realy its a mistranslation. it says virgins but it means virginians. can't wait to see when binladen meets Robert E. Lee.
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
    -Winston Churchill
    Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
    -Inara, firefly

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    Quote Originally Posted by morintp View Post
    I thought it was 72 virgins.

    But as to where they found them, I don't think anyone stipulated these would be female virgins. Its probably just 72 fellow suicide bombers.
    Oh, sorry, my bad...fingers were working but not the mind...72 it is!
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    Correction & for the factual record.

    Actually...it is not just 72 Virgins - it's quite a bit more extensive than that.

    It is 72 mansions - each mansion with 72 bedrooms - each room with 72 beds - and each bed with 72 doe eyed Virgins.

    Do the math.

    Somebody wanna hand me that DYNAMITE?
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    BAC
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    That's excessive. I thought I was doin' alright managing one girlfriend when we were together... but 26,873,856!?


    -B

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