DEA agents are losing their guns!(merged)

This is a discussion on DEA agents are losing their guns!(merged) within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I emailed one of my LEO supervisor friends regarding this thread. In that email I told him my opinion. Of course we both agreed that ...

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Thread: DEA agents are losing their guns!(merged)

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    I emailed one of my LEO supervisor friends regarding this thread. In that email I told him my opinion.

    Of course we both agreed that losing your gun is very serious.

    He said that he didn't know of any agencies or departments who had firm policies in place.

    He detailed some stiff, escalating punitive measures, based on whether or not the gun was recovered and if not recovered, whether or not it was later used in a crime.

    He stopped short of termination and making the agent pay for the gun.

    I was surprised to learn the a civilian who left his piece in a public restroom would not face ANY criminal charges. Should the [unrecovered] gun later be used to injure someone, the owner of the gun would of course face many civil liabilities.

    Since my friend knows infinitely more about LE than I do, I'm not about to question what he says or his opinion; rather, I will soften my own view on the subject.

    To those LEOs whom I may have offended with my post, I apologize. I now know much more than I did a few days ago.
    Last edited by KenInColo; March 31st, 2008 at 11:20 PM. Reason: modified paragraph
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

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  3. #47
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    Ken - without downplaying the seriousness of losing your weapon, if there were terminations for it each and every time, it would cost infinitely more to train and equip a new agent/officer than it would simply to eat the cost of the firearm, so from a financial standpoint firing doesn't make sense.

    From a responsibility standpoint, I think the agent/officer should have to pay to replace it, undergo re-training, and face suspension, a bar to favorable actions, and so on. In cases of extreme negligence, termination may be justified.

    Think about it - there are 600,000 guns lost or stolen in the general population each year. Trying to criminally prosecute all of these (or even the ones where the owners made it "easy" to have their guns stolen) would be very difficult. It just doesn't happen.

    All that said - cops (federal or otherwise) shouldn't lose their guns, or even have them stolen except under extreme circumstances...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #48
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    OPFOR,

    Funny, all the reasons you noted for NOT firing, were mentioned by my friend in his email reply to me.

    The punitive actions against the offender were also similar to what you wrote. They were certainly stringent enough that the agent/officer would be sure to remember them for the rest of his career.

    The cost of training a replacement alone would be staggering to the department. The moral of the entire organization would suffer greatly.

    Not to make any excuses here but I'm sure that my former opinion was developed by my exMarine father's very serious attitude in what he taught me about firearms, followed by some very serious training as a youngster in Boy Scouts, followed by more serious training in the service and finally, the serious training I received from that LEO friend in obtaining my CCW.

    The result of all this is a very serious attitude regarding all aspects of carrying a firearm.

    Like I said , "I now know a lot more."
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  5. #49
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    I'm with you on that - see my views on Negligent Discharges...lol

    And, like I said - a pattern of negligence, a single act of gross negligence, and so on may certainly warrant a firing. The overall performance of the agent/officer might come into play as well - is this a stellar cop who just had a REALLY bad day, or is it an oxygen thief who has all sorts of other screw-ups in his past?

    I certainly don't think an LEO should get a free pass for losing a weapon, or even for having it stolen if reasonable precautions weren't taken, but doing away with federal law enforcement seems a bit much (and a bit loony, but that's another thread).
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I wish these statistics seperated lost in line of duty, stolen and lost due to negligence. For me, there would be a big difference between somebody breaking into my house, breaking into my safe, and stealing my guns verses me coming home one day and go to take off my holster and realize I had 'lost' my EDC.

    For those who have had a weapon stolen from them I have nothing but sympothy, for those who have 'lost' a weapon, be it in a restroom, a trash can, or whatever...my feelings are much different.

    I can even understand some 'lost' weapons. An officer jumps in a river to save a child...If that officer comes up with the kid and loses the gun...well, he's a hero.

    A guy who is in a bar off duty and leaves his weapon in the restroom, well, that's quite a bit different.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Thats alright... I "lost" all mine too... I swear....

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