Agent breaks #1 rule. - Page 3

Agent breaks #1 rule.

This is a discussion on Agent breaks #1 rule. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Tangle Absolutely true for me as well. I notice I am more careful with my Glock than other guns and that carrying ...

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Thread: Agent breaks #1 rule.

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Absolutely true for me as well. I notice I am more careful with my Glock than other guns and that carrying my Glock has made me more conscious of habits with other guns.
    Translation...it's less safe. That was all I was trying to say. It wasn't a knock on glock or any other DAO. It's just a fact. Some tools are more dangerous than others...period. A chainsaw is more dangerous than a bow saw...if it wern't, it wouldn't have 6 safety warning tags hanging all over to the bow saws 1. All this means is you have to pay a little more attention with a chainsaw (or a glock). They require a little more discipline. When the user fails to use it...bang. That includes keeping finger off the trigger, checking for obstructions in the holster etc. etc. But it doesn't mean it's as safe as a bow saw.
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  2. #32
    Lead Moderator Array Tangle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Cloud View Post
    Translation...it's less safe. That was all I was trying to say. It wasn't a knock on glock or any other DAO. It's just a fact. Some tools are more dangerous than others...period. A chainsaw is more dangerous than a bow saw...if it wern't, it wouldn't have 6 safety warning tags hanging all over to the bow saws 1. All this means is you have to pay a little more attention with a chainsaw (or a glock). They require a little more discipline. When the user fails to use it...bang. That includes keeping finger off the trigger, checking for obstructions in the holster etc. etc. But it doesn't mean it's as safe as a bow saw.
    I understand - we're just discussin' that's all.

    I don't know Fast Cloud; I'm having doubts that the Glock trigger is an issue. I use to really believe that the Glock trigger was a bit more problematic than some other guns, esp. DA/SA, but something like 65% of LEOs carry Glocks. If Glock triggers were problematic, we should be hearing about lot more UDs than we do.

    I can't deny there is something to be said for cases where fingers migrate subconsciously to the trigger, but still, we're not hearing, at least I'm not, of an inordinate number of UDs as a result of that.

    But, as a direct result of this discussion, I'm considering buying one of those Saf-T-Bloks - not for carry, but for temporary storage of a loaded gun and for some other applications I have in mind.

    One thing I would receive with open arms if it were to be an option - a magazine disconnect. It solves some problems.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Array rmarkob's Avatar
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    I have a friend who was activated in an administrative military role during the Bosnian war in the 90s. He was unaccustomed to handling personal weapons (lives in NJ!), but required to carry a Beretta M9 against his wishes. He told me he had 2 "AD"s (I'd call them NDs) with that DA/SA pistol. I don't know whether the NDs were in DA or SA mode.

    As my signature indicates, I carry either a G19, PM9, or S&W 442 - all DA, no external safety. I'm acutely aware of where my trigger finger is whenever I handle these guns un-holstered. As others have said, it's improved my awareness when handling any other gun.

    Last thought I haven't seen mentioned in this thread: the NY1 and NY2 trigger springs for Glocks. I presume they exist to reduce NDs based on somebody's analysis of the NYPD. Not saying it's a solution - I happen to think if anything it might tend to protect somebody from their own negligence, but doesn't address the real problem - disobeying Rule #3 of firearm safety.
    Clinging to guns and God in PA...

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array gwhall57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    Another person trying to clean a loaded gun. What is the facination with cleaning loaded guns? I always unload mine before cleaning so what am I missing and am I doing it wrong?
    Maybe they want to clean the bullets, too?
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  5. #35
    VIP Member Array OPFOR's Avatar
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    The M9 has a looooong trigger pull AND an external safety. And one non-gun guy has two NDs with it in the space of a few months. If this isn't a STRONG indication that external safeties are not the answer, I don't know what is...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    The M9 has a looooong trigger pull AND an external safety. And one non-gun guy has two NDs with it in the space of a few months. If this isn't a STRONG indication that external safeties are not the answer, I don't know what is...
    Breaking fingers works well.
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  7. #37
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    You can't fix stupid!!
    There is not a bad gun from any major manf. nowadays !!
    They go bang when you hit the trigger, this guy was showing off his toy and shot somebody!
    DA/SA, DOA,SA There all quality firearms that we all carry everyday, respect it and follow the rules!!
    When you play with a gun people get hurt, it's a tool not a toy!!
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

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  8. #38
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    But it is fun to poke the Glock guy's
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    But, as a direct result of this discussion, I'm considering buying one of those Saf-T-Bloks - not for carry, but for temporary storage of a loaded gun and for some other applications I have in mind.
    Probably not a bad idea...my G19 is the only gun in my house that doesn't have a round in the pipe. It probably doesn't matter any way because it'd be way down on the list of guns I'd grab in an emergency. It could very well be as Opfor said that they have more UDs simply because there are more of them out there. It just seems sometimes that everyone has a glock story to tell. As for me, I guess I'll keep on sweeping the safety...it's never been an issue for me. (I know Biker, I know)
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  10. #40
    Member Array Rev9mm's Avatar
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    Now, correct the new guy if I'm wrong . . . but it sure seems to me that if the guy in question would have unloaded his weapon before showing it off to the co-worker, then all of this discussion would be moot.

    I can't imagine tossing a gun around--or, frankly, even handing it off--to a buddy w/o first dropping the mag and cycling the round out of the chamber. No way an unloaded gun can accidentically discharge.

  11. #41
    Member Array nuparadigm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Here's the thing - BP Agents (and correct me if this has changed) use the Beretta DAO pistol.
    The current USBP issue sidearm is the H&K P2000.
    The Edge ... there's no honest way to describe it. The only ones who know where it is have gone over.

  12. #42
    Lead Moderator Array Tangle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Cloud View Post
    ... As for me, I guess I'll keep on sweeping the safety...it's never been an issue for me.
    Nothin' wrong with that either - it's worked successfully for years.
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  13. #43
    VIP Member Array OPFOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Nothin' wrong with that either - it's worked successfully for years.
    And unsuccessfully - there are THOUSANDS of NDs with safety equipped weapons out there...

    But, hey, to each his own. I trust ME more than any mechanical device...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  14. #44
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwhall57 View Post
    Maybe they want to clean the bullets, too?
    I hadn't thought of that. You learn some thing new every day. I guess I will have to start cleaning my bullets without bothering to take them out of the gun.

  15. #45
    Lead Moderator Array Tangle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    And unsuccessfully - there are THOUSANDS of NDs with safety equipped weapons out there...

    But, hey, to each his own. I trust ME more than any mechanical device...
    OPFOR,
    It'd be fairly safe to say that most UDs happen by people that trust themselves. We don't have numbers to indicate if guns with safety devices have more or less UDs.

    But, OPFOR, while you can say that you trust yourself more than any safety device, you're not the only person that owns/carries a gun. So, could you say you trust all of them more than any safety device?

    And, if we do claim we trust them more than any safety device, and trigger action types, pull weight, safeties are truly irrelevant in regard to UDs, doesn't that imply that it should be perfectly acceptable and safe to carry a 1911 cocked with the safety off and carry a Sig 229, etc. DA/SA cocked? How about carrying a revolver cocked, wouldn't that also have to be just as safe as carrying it hammer down?
    I'm too young to be this old!
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