Church Carry by LEO in Uniform
This is a discussion on Church Carry by LEO in Uniform within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; recently an situation close to home here.
An LEO who worked third shift got off duty just barely in time to travel to Church Sunday ...
April 15th, 2008 12:10 PM
Church Carry by LEO in Uniform
recently an situation close to home here.
An LEO who worked third shift got off duty just barely in time to travel to Church Sunday morning but no time to change (something came up at end of shift that delayed him so he had to rush straight there). His Wife was giving a talk that morning to the congregation that he just had to be there for. So he went in full uniform and of course open carried his duty weapon.
Well... the next day he gets a call from a couple of the Church higher ups that someone in the Congregation had felt uncomfortable there being a weapon in church (must not be reading the papers lately) so then they go on to tell him that they "think" it might be illegal for him to have done so.
Well... first of all the only thing I can find in SC is that a Concealed Weapons Holder cannot carry in a Church without "express permission" but I do not see how open carry while in Uniform would even be applicable if that is what they mean. Nor do I think, right off hand, he could have nor should have been unarmed while in Uniform.
The Sheepish attitude aside I wonder what you other LEO's have to contribute to this?
Now... my initial advice to him is that he should wait until the Bishop that he knows is a Concealed Weapons Permit holder and always carries in that Church gets back (he has been out of town and probably would have defused this situation had he been here) and let him take it back up with these other two. And then clarify the differences between an LEO carrying in uniform and even carrying concealed off duty in that Church. But in the mean time gather as much information as he can to aid that Bishop when he takes this up.
Of course he didn't ever INTEND to go in full uniform but it just happened that there was not a choice. It was either do that or miss his Wifes talk. But what should it matter?
Of course he has been concealed carrying in this Church without them even caring but then again no one is told as its something you just don't need to tell. And some of them even encourage it. But it was this particular situation, which was unavoidable, that resulted in him open carrying while in full uniform that brought this up.
What say ye?
My first knee jerk is that he should not and could not disarm while in full uniform. Nor does he even have to get permission because its not covered under the CWP laws. He is exempt and since there are separate laws to keep from disarming a Police officer off duty he does not need to get permission from them to carry concealed either.
April 15th, 2008 12:21 PM
I don't react well to idiots.
My response would have been along the lines of....
..... "I'm sorry, since you obviously don't appreciate and support my service as a Law-Enforcement-Officer and a public servant in this community, I'll find another church that does." I would have then sent a letter saying the same thing to the Bishop and the local newspaper.
But as I said, I don't react well to idiots.
April 15th, 2008 12:22 PM
In uniform - armed ALWAYS!
If my church had a problem with me making it to worship in uniform, I'd be changing churches.
When I was an LEO I had a couple of instances where I could only make it to a service in uniform, either just getting off, or stopping before going on duty.
I really can't see why anyone would object to a person who will willingly take a bullet for them should come to worship dressed and prepared to do just that!
April 15th, 2008 12:34 PM
I'd tell 'em to pound salt and I wont be back.
"Just blame Sixto"
I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.
April 15th, 2008 12:42 PM
Any specific laws covering this that he can use? I am pretty sure there are laws preventing the disarming of an LEO except under specific conditions (like Federal Court house) but not Churches.
I anticipate he will get an apology when the Bishop gets back and sees the mess made here. But in the mean time...
Pounding Salt sound rather biblical dont it?
April 15th, 2008 12:49 PM
My first thought is "you've got to be kidding"! Many jurisdictions require their off duty officers to carry in civvies. Sounds like you have some Church folk down there that have a problem.
EOD - Initial success or total failure
April 15th, 2008 12:50 PM
Agreed, two times.
Originally Posted by digitalexplr
This is ridiculous!
He is an employed peace officer that clearly was just such a person being that he was in his 'P O L I C E' labelled uniform.
He is a servant and protector of the public including the congregation within that church both on the street, in their home, and yes at that church too.
For some jerk person to be alarmed at the sight of a police in uniform in church whilst carrying their sidearm is an indication that said person themself has a problem, and issue within their own mind and psyche. Further for the church officials to take an extra step and speak to the officer about as much is even that much more ridiculous. Shameful even for that congregation as these two people represent them all.
Then to have the gall to imply to the officer that he acted improperly muchless illegally that just puts the icing on the layered stupid cake of ignorance and disrespect.
If I were him I'd tell them to not be concerned as they will never see me or my wife amongst their congregation again, so as to not alarm them. Further as they by their actions and statements have wonder toward his own mental veracity above and beyond that of the trust endowed upon him by their own village/town/city then I would no longer be providing them with support, endorsement, or monies either as one wouldn't want to be associated with a person who is questionable and just might fly off at the handle.
This is disgraceful and upsetting to hear of.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
April 15th, 2008 12:54 PM
Well my first thougth is I didn't know that had a CHURCH OF THE MORONS.........but with that out of the way........we need to pray for them to have eyes to see and ears to hear (not only what is in scriptures but in the world they live in). If I were that officer; I would find a new church.
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
April 15th, 2008 01:05 PM
We have a uniformed officer who attends church from time to time; always just figured he had to be to work soon.
And two who work the parking lot; which come in and sit in the back of the church after the service starts, and I’m very happy to have them there.
I don’t think an officer should ever be unarmed in uniform. It’s kind of like advertising “I’m a target”.
If I where you, and him I’d be looking for another church.
April 15th, 2008 01:27 PM
I don't think leaving a church you like otherwise is the answer here because it might just be an opportunity to educate... and change perceptions.
April 15th, 2008 01:51 PM
Throw a LEO out of your church for being in uniform??? I would rate this as the stupidest thing I've heard all week, and in SC of all places. Have some folks there cut a deal with His Horror Mayor Bloomburg??
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
April 15th, 2008 02:04 PM
Hold on... Not thrown out...
Just told afterward that someone complained and they thought it was improper...
No one was thrown out.
April 15th, 2008 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by cphilip
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig!
April 15th, 2008 03:18 PM
Boy and howdy, I wish I had a dime for every time I left on vacation and some christian maroon started something. (Rant off)
Originally Posted by cphilip
I would suggest that church leadership will need to have a talking to the dingbat(s) who started this about 1. their attitudes, 2. their timing, 3. their tongues. When that is done, perhaps they will think next time before they speak. (A pastor can hope, can't he?)
I have been a pastor in several churches over 30 years time span. During that time, I have had only a very few LE who were active. It was often because they have seen so much of the bad side of life that I think they had a hard time in church with the whole idea of people growing and becoming Christ-like. Just enough examples of folks who seemed to be headed in the wrong direction.
I would personally talk to this officer, letting him know how glad I am that he is there, how grateful I am for his service, THEN I might tell the others to go pound sand, as Sixto said.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
April 15th, 2008 03:32 PM
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