Tables are Turned on a LEO

This is a discussion on Tables are Turned on a LEO within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SIXTO There is no excuse fo anyone who is not handicapped to park in a handicapped spot. Heheh, I'll bet if it ...

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Thread: Tables are Turned on a LEO

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    There is no excuse fo anyone who is not handicapped to park in a handicapped spot.

    Heheh, I'll bet if it was you lying there gasping for breath, you wouldn't mind the EMT's grabbing the handicapped spot.

    You already said it, "Where would they park if an emergency was to occur?". Granted, that was regarding a fire lane. But for life/death circumstances - who gives a rats azz where the first responders park? Park close - save lives - all is good.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    Heheh, I'll bet if it was you lying there gasping for breath, you wouldn't mind the EMT's grabbing the handicapped spot.
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    Well yeah, if there is an active emergency at that location, sure park where ever. SIXTO doesnt want to die!
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    According to the video:

    1) He was on-duty

    2) He stopped to pick-up a meal

    3) The state law doesn't allow

    I think we all have been there...this is making a mountain out of a mole hill. We all should be held to a standard. The lawyer had an ax to grind...

    On the other hand...I question the argument about minutes saved and real data to support.

    Rick

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    If you had an emergency, and needed help NOW, how far away from the restaurant would you want the police car parked? That poor guy may be trying to eat his lunch one minute and on the run to save your sorry butt the next.

    So, do we let police and ambulances park in loading zones when they need to eat, or do we designate special parking spaces in front of every single place that sells food or coffee, one for 'Police Only' and one for 'Ambulance Only'? Maybe we should just take that unit out of service during lunch, and require everyone to schedule their crimes, accidents, heart attacks, fires, and other emergencies for a different time.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    On the other hand...I question the argument about minutes saved and real data to support.
    I don't even know where to begin...

    Edit to add:


    OK, here is a quote off of some county's health dept web site.

    The success of defibrillation diminishes rapidly with each passing minute, decreasing the chance of successful return of normal heart rhythm by 10% for each passing minute.
    A Guide to the Seattle-King County Community Responder CPR-AED Program


    and


    Paramedics are trained to do a good job of providing early Advanced Cardiac Life Support, but without early defibrillation early ACLS is often not effective. Failure to restore a normal heart rhythm within 4 to 6 minutes can result in irreversible brain damage. After 10 minutes the survival rate may be only 2 percent—or less.
    Even in some of the best EMS systems in the world, where response times are 4 to 8 minutes, EMS has a SCA survival rate of approximately 5 percent. Survival rates plunge 10 percent every minute defibrillation is delayed.

    Chart 1 - Elapsed time from Sudden Cardiac Arrest & Chances of Survival

    As this chart demonstrates, when defibrillation is delayed for more than 10 minutes, survival becomes doubtful. Survival rates can be higher if a victim is defibrillated during the first minutes after collapse. In one study of casino gaming facilities in Las Vegas, for example, survival rates reached 74 percent when the shock was administered within 3 minutes of collapse.
    this kind of data is repeated anywhere cpr and first aid is taught. In this case refers to cardiac problems, but just as true for stroke victims, many trauma victims. I'm only speaking for the medical side. But I can also say that if you're ever waiting for the cops because you need them, a minute is forever...
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cupcake View Post
    I know a lot of you would be happy to see Cops (and ambulance and fire vehicles) forced to park wherever legally like averyone else. That is, until you call for an emergency. A loved one can't breathe or has had a heart attack? Start counting the minutes until their brain is toast. It only takes a few and even ONE MORE can be the end of it. I no longer work in the field, but I say cut them some slack on parking. I AM NOT saying that they should be allowed to drive unsafely.
    So, they should not have to follow the same laws as everyone else because we might lose 30 seconds from them hoofing it to their car on the chance that there is an emergency.

    If that's your logic they should have to do only drive thrus with no traffic or bring their own lunch since that would give them the fastest possible response to emergencies.
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    So, they should not have to follow the same laws as everyone else because we might lose 30 seconds from them hoofing it to their car on the chance that there is an emergency.

    If that's your logic they should have to do only drive thrus with no traffic or bring their own lunch since that would give them the fastest possible response to emergencies.
    And if your logic is that there is no need to be in a hurry in an emergency, then they shouldn't bother with the lights or siren...just sit in traffic... BTW, do you have any idea how many drive thrus have no escape once you're in them?
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array JohnKelly's Avatar
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    The cop was on-duty, and had to pick up his order (vs. sitting down in the restaurant). Yeah, I know it looks bad - but give the guy a break. A $500 ticket for parking in a loading zone! The person who wrote that law should be punished. The punishment should fit the crime, and $500 is a weeks pay for some folks (maybe even that LEO).

  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cupcake View Post
    ...this kind of data is repeated anywhere cpr and first aid is taught. In this case refers to cardiac problems, but just as true for stroke victims, many trauma victims. I'm only speaking for the medical side. But I can also say that if you're ever waiting for the cops because you need them, a minute is forever...
    ...good discussion. Do you have any data/actual example that shows that parking as such has actually saved someone?

    ...I think using parking as an argument for saving time is weak. If done so, the argument can be furthered to brown bagging it to save that extra minute.

    Notwithstanding and as previously stated...this is a mountain out of a mole hill...I just don't see the big deal with picking up a carry out.

    Rick

  11. #25
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    Time Out!!!!!!

    Okay lets see what everyone is saying. (For LEO's)

    1) During an emergency Park anywhere you need too
    2) Obey the law
    3) Portland has a stupid law
    4) The lawyer had a beef with the Cops
    5) If it is a quick in and out (getting the lunch to go) then its not a problem.
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

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  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    Do you have any data/actual example that shows that parking as such has actually saved someone?
    Nope. But neither do I have any data to prove that anyone I ever "saved" would've actually died. No proof that hearts wouln't have re-started all by themselves. I suppose I should've just stayed at home.

    Very true, MTN out of a molehill. And $500 for parking in a loading zone is unreasonable for anyone.
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  13. #27
    Member Array gg12's Avatar
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    just as true for stroke victims
    Nit picking here: Unless you're having your stroke near a stroke center (of which there are EXTREMELY few in this country--MO only has 3 in the entire state for example) this is very UNtrue. As much as the AHA would like to class strokes as "brain attacks" and treat them the same, the two diseases are NOT NOT NOT the same!

    $500 fine seems a bit stiff for parking in that area, sounds like he offended someone higher up at some point.

  14. #28
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    My general view of issues is that a little "tolerance" goes a long way. Give the cops a break and don't make a fuss about a minor violation. Cops, give the citizens a break, and when reasonable to do so issue warning citations.

    Improperly parking/ blocking a loading zone can be a big issue for a proprietor or his customers. What should be done , as usual, is it all depends. In some cases $500.00 for blocking a loading zone is reasonable; in most it is too much by far. Probably the city set it that high because there were too many goof balls brazenly ignoring the rules and a firm step was needed.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array Holdcard's Avatar
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    OK, maybe someone can fill me in. Where I get confused is when is an officer ON or OFF duty. Some say they are always on duty, others say if they are not on duty they will simply be a good witness and not interfere. The on and off duty reasoning seems to be whichever vindicates the officer in any given situation. So, which is it?

    If I'm on a break, I'm not working. How does that work for LEO? If you're on a break won't you be the last to be called upon? (unless you're the only cop in a one cop town).

    How would that work for anyone who is NOT a LEO? If I park in a loading zone on my break, even if I am just in there long enough to run in and get my order, I should get a ticket, it's against the law isn't it? If one of you officers were issuing me a ticket how would you react if I gave you that excuse? Would that be a valid reason for breaking the law? Would that be grounds enough for you to not issue the ticket?

    Please note, I'm not trying to pick a fight or bash anyone, I'm trying to understand why the law is so different for those that enforce it, and I really don't understand this on and off duty thing.

    Thanks for helping me understand this kind of stuff. I try to keep an open mind, and admittedly I'm not a LEO. I never have been. I've learned a lot from these kind of threads, there is a lot of things I don't understand or don't even think of because I'm not in law enforcement.

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  16. #30
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    Holdcard,

    Most of the Firelane laws are for Emergency Vehicles only, doesn't have to be an emergency just an emergency vehicle.

    Apparently in Portland the Firelane is for Emergencies only.

    This is where the officer broke the law, he was in a Emergency Vehicle but it wasn't an Emergency (unless he was really hungry )

    I think in most places no one would really care if you were getting a to go order (Emergency Vehicle or Not). Its blocking the firelane for prolong periods that can be an issue
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

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