American Veteran of Iraq War RELEASED FROM Mexican Prison - Page 3

American Veteran of Iraq War RELEASED FROM Mexican Prison

This is a discussion on American Veteran of Iraq War RELEASED FROM Mexican Prison within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Jaystekan This is most definitely a pro-gun ownership/self defense/personal freedom forum...Whether we agree with the law or not, whether we agree with ...

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Thread: American Veteran of Iraq War RELEASED FROM Mexican Prison

  1. #31
    Member Array BushidoMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaystekan View Post
    This is most definitely a pro-gun ownership/self defense/personal freedom forum...Whether we agree with the law or not, whether we agree with the government...or not,...there is one simple indisputable fact. That fact is: HE BROKE THE LAW. The law may be unjust, the government of mexico may be unrustworthy, howeever we do no have the ability to decide what laws to follow or not.
    Seems to me that some dead white guys back in the day felt differently... They didn't like the laws of the government they lived under, so they quit following them and wrote down the reasons why on a fews pieces of paper, which led to the government trying to kill the men in question. The government at the time called them traitors, we now call them our Founding Fathers....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaystekan View Post
    Would you be pro gun right, pro-freedom for a mexican citizen armed in this country?
    Absolutely. And absolutely amazed that I even have to state the following on this of all forums..."The RIGHT to own weapons for personal defense is part and parcel of THE BASIC *HUMAN RIGHT* to defend, and by extension truly be in possession of one's very life."
    Those same dead white guys I mentioned earlier didn't say anything about passport requirements in relation the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, so for what logical reason would/should that be any different when it comes to possessing the most effective piece of machinery currently available to protect the aforementioned *RIGHT* (not a mere Citizen's "privilege") to life...?!?

    IMHO, you either believe in the HUMAN RIGHT to bear arms, PERIOD(!), regardless of where your feet are at or where they came from(**), or you start getting into Dianne Fineswine/Sly Stallone no-guns-for-you-mere-peons territory of the elitist. --> "Guns are OK for people like *me*, but I sure don't want them damn ferriners, Jews, blacks, rednecks...(ad nausem) to have 'em." Sorry, but I am of the mind that that dog don't hunt...



    (** ...and no I don't mean inside a prison, or for soldiers invading our country...they get the Red Dawn treatment )
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Bushido, I don't even know where to begin with this.

    It is a different country. Different laws. Different constitution.

    For us to attempt to change Mexico's laws by force is not a rebellion. It would be an invasion.

    Our fouding fathers(Dead white guys, according to you) changed the laws of the place of their residence. Not somebody else's residence.

    They had stakes in the matter...they were sitting at the table and threw their chips in the pot. To advocate trying to change Mexico's gun laws is like watching Poker on TV and arguing about whether a guy should have folded or not.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    They had stakes in the matter...they were sitting at the table and threw their chips in the pot.
    We certainly have a stake in the pot. Unless there has been a change, and we favor allowing the free transit of rapists, cop-killers, not to mention dopers in our country.

    Well why don't we encourage Mexicans to stay in Mexico and change their government, improve their economy and maybe create a society where their people can prosper?
    That is a sociological issue that quickly turns to name calling, but fundamentally, there is no significant history of personal responsibility for the foundation for a genuinely republican society. A subjugating civilization that was in turn subjugated and has spent the ensuing years re-establishing their hierarchy.

  4. #34
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushidoMarine View Post
    Seems to me that some dead white guys back in the day felt differently... They didn't like the laws of the government they lived under, so they quit following them and wrote down the reasons why on a fews pieces of paper, which led to the government trying to kill the men in question. The government at the time called them traitors, we now call them our Founding Fathers....



    Absolutely. And absolutely amazed that I even have to state the following on this of all forums..."The RIGHT to own weapons for personal defense is part and parcel of THE BASIC *HUMAN RIGHT* to defend, and by extension truly be in possession of one's very life."
    Those same dead white guys I mentioned earlier didn't say anything about passport requirements in relation the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, so for what logical reason would/should that be any different when it comes to possessing the most effective piece of machinery currently available to protect the aforementioned *RIGHT* (not a mere Citizen's "privilege") to life...?!?

    IMHO, you either believe in the HUMAN RIGHT to bear arms, PERIOD(!), regardless of where your feet are at or where they came from(**), or you start getting into Dianne Fineswine/Sly Stallone no-guns-for-you-mere-peons territory of the elitist. --> "Guns are OK for people like *me*, but I sure don't want them damn ferriners, Jews, blacks, rednecks...(ad nausem) to have 'em." Sorry, but I am of the mind that that dog don't hunt...



    (** ...and no I don't mean inside a prison, or for soldiers invading our country...they get the Red Dawn treatment )



    WOW, HMMMM, Where to begin. I am not going to get too deep into this argument, as it is going way off the original topic. The man arrested was a citizen of the United States illegally entering a foreign country with weapons in his car. He was not part of a rebellion, he was not attempting to overthrow an unjust government, he was not even a citizen of the country he was entering. What he did was against the law, it is really that simple. Whether he was a united states soldier or not is insignificant. This has nothing to do with our founding fathers, or dead white guys as you so eloquently put it. The right to own weapons for personal defense means different things to different people, this is evident in the differing state and federal firearms laws. If it meant the same thing to everyone, then there would be no need for different laws. After reading your post, I get the sense that you think he did nothing wrong by entering Mexico with weapons, because it is his human right. By this reasoning, do you take your weapons with you when you travel to D.C., do you go to foreign countries armed? Do you not respect the ccw laws in your particular state and simply carry everywhere you go? I highly doubt it, and if you do, then you can and will be in a lot of trouble eventually, as the subject of this thread has found out the hard way. Simply believing that carrying a firearm is a right, does not give anyone a free pass to carry whenever and wherever they want, it does not allow someone to disrgard borders, disregard the laws of other countries,etc... We cannot pick and choose what laws we like and what laws we don't like. This man broke the law. Whether we agree with the law or not, he broke it. WHether he is an american citizen or not, he broke mexican law and was arrested in Mexico in accordance with their laws. It truly is that simple.
    Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

  5. #35
    Distinguished Member Array jarhead79's Avatar
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    The exact same thing happened while I was stationed in San Diego. A SGT was tasked with "fetching" one of his junior Marines from the Shore Patrol after a bout in TJ. He got down there, was forced to the gate, because he missed his turnoff. Before he even proceeded into MX, he made it clear that he didn't want to go into MX, and even declared that he had weapons in his trunk. He just wanted to turn around and go back north.

    They agreed and let him in, he made his U-turn, then they wouldn't let him back across. In the end, he spent 30 days locked up in a TJ jail.

    Now THAT was a setup.

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  6. #36
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    We certainly have a stake in the pot. Unless there has been a change, and we favor allowing the free transit of rapists, cop-killers, not to mention dopers in our country.


    That is a sociological issue that quickly turns to name calling, but fundamentally, there is no significant history of personal responsibility for the foundation for a genuinely republican society. A subjugating civilization that was in turn subjugated and has spent the ensuing years re-establishing their hierarchy.
    Rob72, see the post by Jaystekan. It's pretty much spot on.

    I am unsure of how your post relates to this subject in anyway at all. Perhaps you meant to post in the border patrol checkpoint thread?
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  7. #37
    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    i am disgusted at the very thought of leaveing a fellow soldier in the hands of a country with nothing but ill will towards the united states. every day mexican soldiers come into the united states armed and are given a free pass. just because this paratrooper sucks at land nav is no excuse to leave him there.
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  8. #38
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    US soldier jailed in Mexico on gun charges freed | AP | 05/31/2008

    EL PASO, Texas - A U.S. soldier who was held in a Mexican jail for more than a month on weapons charges has been released, Mexican authorities said.

    Spc. Richard Torres was arrested April 21 after he has said he accidentally crossed the border in El Paso with an AR-15 assault rifle, a .45-caliber handgun and 171 bullets in his car.

    In a statement released Friday, a spokesman for the Center for Social Readaption jail in Ciudad Juarez said Torres, a 25-year-old Iraq war veteran, was released to U.S. authorities Friday afternoon.

    Torres had faced a gun-possession charge.

    Torres' mother, Gloria Medina, said in a phone interview Friday that a Mexican judge hearing the case threw out the charge, allowing Torres to be released Friday afternoon.

    "The U.S. consulate called and said, 'I've got good news for you, Richard's being released,'" Medina said.

    She said she spoke to her son and he was planning to drive to California after stopping for dinner in El Paso. A cell phone number for Torres was out of service on Friday.

    Gloria Medina said neither she nor her son are harboring any ill feelings toward Mexico.

    "I am just glad they have finally seen the light," she said.

    Medina said Torres' 1999 Honda Prelude was released to the Army earlier this month and had been stored at Fort Bliss.

    Torres said in previous interviews that he was headed home to Fresno, Calif., from Fort Hood, when he decided to stop in El Paso and walk across the border to grab breakfast in Ciudad Juarez, a hardscrabble border city plagued with violence.

    Misunderstanding directions from a gas station attendant after driving all night, Torres said he accidentally crossed the border while looking for a place to park.

    Investigators with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives concluded that Torres, who was transferring to an Army unit based in Honduras when he was arrested, was not smuggling weapons into Mexico to sell them.

    Medina said Torres will have a few weeks to spend at home before he reports back to Fort Hood and eventually to his next assignment in Honduras.
    Well it looks like things are Ok without storming a Mexican jail...

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    Good for him. I wonder what the U.S. had to give up for this to happen. At least he is free and can spend some time with his mother before heading back out. He might also want to get a GPS unit to keep this from happening again.
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  10. #40
    Ex Member Array TacticalCompact's Avatar
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    I also remember teh marine in San Diego (I'm from there) who was jailed in TJ for a similar misunderstanding. Interesting how they both spent about the same amount of time in jail, then were released.

    I think the Mexican government wants to make clear their stance on such issues: Come here with a gun, go to jail.

    Sure, they'll let you out in a month, but are you willing to risk it? Not me.

  11. #41
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    I'd say we are approaching this the wrong way; I feel sorry for the guy, but as Kerbouchard stated, there are pretty clearly marked signs all over the place at the border crossings I have been to.

    Of course, instead of navy SEALS we could send a couple of Texas Rangers down there to get our soldier and clean up the drug war going on. After all, one riot, one ranger.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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