Military Going Back To .45 acp Caliber ?

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Thread: Military Going Back To .45 acp Caliber ?

  1. #1
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    Military Going Back To .45 acp Caliber ?

    The Link Click Here


    10 -- Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) System

    Draft Request For Proposal for Industry Comment: Response Due 09/15/05 01 - Posted on Sep 02, 2005

    General Information


    Document Type: Presolicitation Notice
    Solicitation Number: H92222-05-R-0017
    Posted Date: Aug 26, 2005
    Original Response Date: Nov 29, 2005
    Current Response Date: Nov 29, 2005
    Original Archive Date: Nov 14, 2005
    Current Archive Date: Nov 14, 2005
    Classification Code: 10 -- Weapons
    Naics Code: 332994 -- Small Arms Manufacturing

    Contracting Office Address
    Other Defense Agencies, U.S. Special Operations Command, Headquarters Procurement Division, 7701 Tampa Point Blvd, MacDill AFB, FL, 33621-5323
    Description
    The USSOCOM intends to issue a solicitation to obtain commercially available non-developmental item (NDI) Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) system, Caliber .45 (ACP). The Program will use full and open competition to fulfill the JCP requirement. The JCP will be delivered in accordance with specification entitled "Performance Specification Joint Combat Pistol" to be provided with issuance of the solicitation. Two configurations of the pistol will be required. One configuration will have no external safety and the other configuration will have an external safety. The Combat Pistol System consists of: a Caliber .45 pistol and its ancillary equipment including: Magazines (standard and high-capacity); Suppressor Attachment Kit for operation of the pistol with and without sound suppressor; Holster; Magazine Holder (standard and high-capacity); Cleaning Kit; and Operator's Manual. The contract type will be an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) issuing Firm-Fixed Price (FFP) delivery orders. The contract period of performance shall be Five (5)years with an option to extend for an additional Five (5) years. The Minimum Quantity is 24 each Engineering test Units (ETU's), 12 each with external manual safety and 12 each without external manual safety. The estimated Maximum quantities are: 45,000 no external safety JCP configuration and 600,000 JCP with the external safety configuration; 649,000 Holsters; 96,050 Standard Capacity Magazines; 192,099 High Capacity Magazines; 667,000 Magazine Holders; 132,037 Suppressor attachment kits; Provisioning Item Order, Technical Data Package and associated Data. Transportation shall be F.O.B. Destination. The solicitation will require, free of charge to the government, delivery of 24 each product samples along with a concise written proposal all due on the closing date stated in the solicitation. The 24-each product sample from the successful offeror may be accepted as the Minimum Quantity. Any subsequent delivery orders for JCP's will order between 50 each and 200,000 each with a maximum monthly delivery rate of 5,000 each. Any subsequent orders for the ancillary items will require delivery to commence within 60 days after receipt of order. The product samples and written proposal will be evaluated on a best value basis and the Government will reserve the right to award to other than the lowest priced offeror and other than the highest technically rated offeror. Product samples from unsuccessful offerors will be returned to the offerors upon request and at the offeror's expense. The Government cannot guarantee the condition of the product samples after testing. All responsible sources may submit a proposal, which shall be considered by the agency. The Government intend to issue a draft solicitation. Notifications, Solicitation, and other communication will be posted via FEDBIZOPS. Questions may be emailed to Contract Specialist, Mr. Pfender at john.pfender@navy.mil.
    Point of Contact
    Tina Lopez, Contract Specialist, Phone 813 828 7063, Fax 813 828 7504, Email lopezt@socom.mil - Susan Griffin, Contracting Officer, Phone 813-828-7411, Fax 813-828-7504, Email griffi1@socom.mil

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  3. #2
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    Bet there's a boatload of guys hope they do - get back on the .45acp ship!

    Guess we'll see how this plays out over time.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    i hope so and maybe even the 1911 ..

    I see they want external and non external safetys the non ext safety i think the glock or eve the Hk usp varient 7 i think it is would work


    i really dont see the armed forces going to a non external safety pistol though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bud White
    i hope so and maybe even the 1911 ..
    One can only hope

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    I think the .45 GAP would be an option here (ducks airborn items) as it would allow a double stack mag, thus more capacity, in a package fitting smaller hands while still giving .45 performance.

    In JHP, I prefer 9mm but if limited to ball I would want .45.

    As for platform, there are simpler and more reliable platforms at a much lower unit price than the 1911.
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    too bad they follow the FMJ guidelines for warfare, since HP's would work so much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CombatEffective
    As for platform, there are simpler and more reliable platforms at a much lower unit price than the 1911.
    Simpler and more reliable?
    Than a 1911?

    Shirley, Tell me you don't mean that.

    The 1911 has been in service longer, as a man stopper, than any other handgun design out there. It has seen almost 100 years of steady, hard usage that's, Dependability, Reliability and Durability.

    What other handgun on the market has seen use for that long, other than a Single Action Army?

    If I'm going to a gunfight and I can have only 1 handgun. I want a 1911. Or maybe my Wilson Tactical Elite built on an STI 2011, only because it carries 15 rounds. (Clint Smith said of the gun, "I wouldn't want to carry this thing around all day, but if I were going to a gunfight.....Very nice!!)

    As for cost per unit. I really don't give a damn and neither should the government. (Murphy's Law collary: Your weapon was constructed by the lowest bidder.) This practice should stop where our military is concerned. Our guys should have the Baddest, most efficient death dealing weapons this country can produce.

    As for simplicity, let's take a vote here. How many 1911 owners here can take apart their pistol down to it's basic componets. every spring and piece that can be detail stripped?

    How many others can do that with anything else other than a 1911?

    JMB made that gun simple. That's why it's still with us with such popularity.

    Just this old vets opinion.
    Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences

    "I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
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    nothing wrong with the 1911. Modern designs just do it better. Less parts to take down, means ease of field stripping.

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    Suppressor Attachment Kit for operation of the pistol with and without sound suppressor
    Most 45 ammo is subsonic and easier to supress than the supersonic 9mm. You will be cutting down on "specialty" ammo.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acparmed
    Simpler and more reliable?
    Than a 1911?

    Shirley, Tell me you don't mean that.

    The 1911 has been in service longer, as a man stopper, than any other handgun design out there. It has seen almost 100 years of steady, hard usage that's, Dependability, Reliability and Durability.

    What other handgun on the market has seen use for that long, other than a Single Action Army?

    If I'm going to a gunfight and I can have only 1 handgun. I want a 1911. Or maybe my Wilson Tactical Elite built on an STI 2011, only because it carries 15 rounds. (Clint Smith said of the gun, "I wouldn't want to carry this thing around all day, but if I were going to a gunfight.....Very nice!!)

    As for cost per unit. I really don't give a damn and neither should the government. (Murphy's Law collary: Your weapon was constructed by the lowest bidder.) This practice should stop where our military is concerned. Our guys should have the Baddest, most efficient death dealing weapons this country can produce.

    As for simplicity, let's take a vote here. How many 1911 owners here can take apart their pistol down to it's basic componets. every spring and piece that can be detail stripped?

    How many others can do that with anything else other than a 1911?

    JMB made that gun simple. That's why it's still with us with such popularity.

    Just this old vets opinion.

    Shirley, I very much mean it.

    I have a very nice 1911. It's also the last of my "defensive" caliber handguns I would grab if my life depended on it.

    You pic 1000 off the shelf standard production 1911s, and I'll pic 1000 off the shelf each of Glocks, XDs, or Rugers (excluding the P345) and put them through a torture test straight out of the box (after initial cleaning) with factory magzines and see where the 1911 finishes. The other three will also beat the 1911 on price per unit.

    Please understand that I am not talking about worked over 1911s or high end stuff like a Wilson Combat in the hands of a dedicated shooter. If that is the option give me a Kimber TLE or Warrior with Tripp magazines and worked over by Teddy Jacobson or the like.

    We are talking about bulk purchase weapons to be put in arsenal use.

    The P51 Mustang has been around a lot longer than the F16.
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    If your allowing 1000 off the shelf standard production 1911s built to SPEC, I'd take the bet.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
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    Thank you OD
    Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences

    "I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
    ~George Patton

    DE OPPRESSO LIBER

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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Hum if its off the shelf non tinkered with 1911's ill take that bet to when you start adding all the dodads it wasnt orginally designed with beaver tail, extended ejector lower and flared port super light trigger pull Full length guide rod ...

    The 1911 becomes what it once was reliable sure you will get a off the shelf one that acts up but that # will be no worse than a sig glock ruger or hk everone builds a turd now and then

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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    ohh yeah forgot to add leave out tighten the slide to frame super tight to try to make a tack shooter out of it give me a sloppy old rattle trap than will live though blood mud and anything else you can throw at it

  16. #15
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    I'm talking about making the rounds of as many gun shops as it takes or to the major distributors (I know the money for that would be rediculous), grabbing them up, and heading to the range.
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