Homeland Security Check Point

This is a discussion on Homeland Security Check Point within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; If he acts like that in his daily life as well, he's likely to meet with a Louisville Slugger some day. Jack...

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 85

Thread: Homeland Security Check Point

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    3,085
    If he acts like that in his daily life as well, he's likely to meet with a Louisville Slugger some day.
    Jack

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    864


    Metro 40 hits it on the head - I am not a LEO - but could not agree more

  4. #33
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,602

    Metro40 has it about right

    Quote Originally Posted by Metro 40 View Post
    I'm an LEO, and I don't like these checkpoints. I don't see what purpose a DHS checkpoint 50 miles from the border serves. There can be no reasonable suspicion inferred from the simple fact that a person is driving on a public highway within 50 miles of the border. The only place that it should be reasonable to stop everybody is AT the border, to control entry. I don't stop motorists unless I have a reasonable suspicion that they have violated a law or ordinance, and that's the way it should be. Outside of emergency exigent circumstances, I don't see a need or justification for random stops.
    Metro40 has it about right here. Consider--my wife and I are driving along an Interstate east of El Paso Texas. The posted speed limit is 80. (Few exceed that, it seems self preservation instincts work for most.)

    Suddenly there are flashing directional arrows, and cones in the road directing and forcing traffic through a narrow checkpoint, where the trucks and cars are backed up a few hundred yards almost onto the highway itself. UNSAFE and unnecessary. We lose 10-12 minutes. A big deal if you need the next rest stop urgently.

    My wife is Asian and often mistaken as Mexican.

    It is too brief a mental leap from the hand wave we got to "papers please." EVen if this is a legal and reasonable process in some manner, the next step (asking for papers) would mean she would need to keep her passport with her at all times. And then, all of us would have to keep our passports with us at all times. The slippery slope is all too evident.

    So there are multiple layers at which these things are problematic.
    Safety, in the form of altered traffic flow on a very high speed Interstate, and civil liberty issues.

    Still, those large tractor trucks do somehow need to be monitored for people smuggling.

    We make our compromises in life; and this is one compromise that apparently our legislators and courts have made on our behalf.

    We are between a rock and a hard place here.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA
    Posts
    5,127
    I wonder how this immigration checkpoint fits in with the SCOTUS opinion that the police can do "safety checkpoints." Obviously the BP is looking for aliens, since she immediately asks about citizenship.

    No probable cause. Ne reasonable suspicion. Either she knew her job or she didn't depending on perspective, but she let it drag on way too long. Yeah the guy was a bit of a jerk, but he never crossed a line, e.g. yelling, cursing, etc.

    I'd say the encounter ended with the BP agent getting schooled. Hopefully she takes it to heart and assimilates it into her future encounters and how she views our freedoms.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  6. #35
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Metro40 has it about right here. Consider--my wife and I are driving along an Interstate east of El Paso Texas. The posted speed limit is 80. (Few exceed that, it seems self preservation instincts work for most.)

    Suddenly there are flashing directional arrows, and cones in the road directing and forcing traffic through a narrow checkpoint, where the trucks and cars are backed up a few hundred yards almost onto the highway itself. UNSAFE and unnecessary. We lose 10-12 minutes. A big deal if you need the next rest stop urgently.
    I think if you really need to use the bathroom you could politely ask at the checkpoint to use theirs. You lost 10 minutes? Oh my!

    It sounds like there was ample warning of the upcoming checkpoint with flashing arrows and cones.

    My wife is Asian and often mistaken as Mexican.
    Homeland security is looking for anyone in the United States illegally whether they are from Mexico or Asia.

    It is too brief a mental leap from the hand wave we got to "papers please." EVen if this is a legal and reasonable process in some manner, the next step (asking for papers) would mean she would need to keep her passport with her at all times. And then, all of us would have to keep our passports with us at all times. The slippery slope is all too evident.
    The slippery slope is not evident at all. And even if we were all required to carry passports (there are now credit card size passports that should be used for exactly this purpose) that is not in any way invasive or a violation of your 'rights.'

    So there are multiple layers at which these things are problematic.
    Safety, in the form of altered traffic flow on a very high speed Interstate, and civil liberty issues.
    I don't think that slowing down can in any way be considered a safety problem. I still haven't identified the civil liberties issue. You mean that verifying you are a US citizen is an issue? Or is it that you were required to slow down to assist our government in enforcing the immigration laws?

    We make our compromises in life; and this is one compromise that apparently our legislators and courts have made on our behalf.

    We are between a rock and a hard place here.
    I am amazed that some become outraged at a situation in which you merely have to identify yourself and then be on your way.

  7. #36
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I wonder how this immigration checkpoint fits in with the SCOTUS opinion that the police can do "safety checkpoints." Obviously the BP is looking for aliens, since she immediately asks about citizenship.

    No probable cause. Ne reasonable suspicion. Either she knew her job or she didn't depending on perspective, but she let it drag on way too long. Yeah the guy was a bit of a jerk, but he never crossed a line, e.g. yelling, cursing, etc.
    In Southern Arizona, there is a reasonable suspicion that EVERYONE is an illegal alien. Since we have limited the effectiveness of BP agents on the border, it is necessary that we allow them to do their jobs without being subject to jerks trying to obstruct law enforcement.

    I'd say the encounter ended with the BP agent getting schooled. Hopefully she takes it to heart and assimilates it into her future encounters and how she views our freedoms.
    The fact is that reasonable suspicion is solely the determination of the Border Patrol agent. Hopefully, people will learn that cooperating with law enforcement is not only an obligation but a benefit to our nation.

    The fact is that these brave Border Patrol agents not only have an untenable job (just look at the citizens here that want to make their job more difficult) with a severe lack of resources, but they have the responibility to detain and deport an overwhelming number of illegals. And their lives are made even more dangerous as they slow the flow of illegal drugs, which is literally ruining the lives of so many Americans.

  8. #37
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Metro 40 View Post
    I'm an LEO, and I don't like these checkpoints. I don't see what purpose a DHS checkpoint 50 miles from the border serves. There can be no reasonable suspicion inferred from the simple fact that a person is driving on a public highway within 50 miles of the border. The only place that it should be reasonable to stop everybody is AT the border, to control entry. I don't stop motorists unless I have a reasonable suspicion that they have violated a law or ordinance, and that's the way it should be. Outside of emergency exigent circumstances, I don't see a need or justification for random stops.

    However, I do find our video camera toting friend to be quite the obnoxious a-hole. I can't imagine the founding fathers engaging in such childish behavior. Whether he's right or wrong, I think there are better ways to address constitutional issues than going around sticking a video camera in peoples' faces and provoking confrontations. Nobody likes an a-hole.
    Good post, IMHO. All points covered and right on point.

    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  9. #38
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by Metro 40 View Post
    Outside of emergency exigent circumstances, I don't see a need or justification for random stops.
    I think the invasion of our country by tens of millions of illegal law breakers is a huge emergency. Not only are they a threat to national security but they are ruining the economy, stealing jobs from Americans, causing a huge upsurge in violent crime and monopolizing our health care system as we are required to treat them in emergency rooms for free (or should I say on the backs of hard working Americans.)

    If we will not build the fence then at least we should be able to find them and deport them using reasonable methods like checkpoints in areas THAT WE KNOW they use for drug smuggling and people smuggling.

    If this isn't an emergency then I challenge anyone to articulate what an emergency looks like to them.

  10. #39
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,602

    More fence, fewer checkpoints

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I think the invasion of our country by tens of millions of illegal law breakers is a huge emergency. Not only are they a threat to national security but they are ruining the economy, stealing jobs from Americans, causing a huge upsurge in violent crime and monopolizing our health care system as we are required to treat them in emergency rooms for free (or should I say on the backs of hard working Americans.)

    If we will not build the fence then at least we should be able to find them and deport them using reasonable methods like checkpoints in areas THAT WE KNOW they use for drug smuggling and people smuggling.

    If this isn't an emergency then I challenge anyone to articulate what an emergency looks like to them.
    More fence should do it. We don't need interior checkpoints. I realize you are tone deaf to the civil liberties issues, but we need to stop this business of inching close to the day when "papers" are required for your every move before we all regret it.

  11. #40
    bae
    bae is offline
    Member Array bae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    San Juan Islands
    Posts
    257
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    More fence should do it. We don't need interior checkpoints.
    So once someone makes it past the fence, they are home free? Doesn't sound reasonable to me.

    Entering the US illegally is an ongoing act. The Border Patrol should, and does, have the authority to investigate throughout the entire territory of the US.

  12. #41
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    More fence should do it. We don't need interior checkpoints. I realize you are tone deaf to the civil liberties issues, but we need to stop this business of inching close to the day when "papers" are required for your every move before we all regret it.
    Tone deaf? Not really. I simply choose to ignore things that don't infringe on my rights.

    I absolutely agree that we need to BUILD THE FENCE. And I am ordinarily against internal checkpoints. I have written about my disdain for DUI checkpoints because those actually infringe on rights. But the national security issue is so important that the illegal problem must be addressed. Since we don't have a fence and the checkpoints are clearly legal and innocuous, I will defend the Border Patrol policies and virtually any effort that will rid our country of continuing destruction of our culture.

    The only think we are inching closer to is 'Impresse dos para Ingles.' Not to mention an enemy attack on our soil. I can't decide which is worse.

  13. #42
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,602

    Do you want to be randomly stopped on the street

    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    So once someone makes it past the fence, they are home free? Doesn't sound reasonable to me.

    Entering the US illegally is an ongoing act. The Border Patrol should, and does, have the authority to investigate throughout the entire territory of the US.
    Do you want to be randomly stopped on the street in front of your house, down the block, where you work, and be asked for papers.

    That is where this stuff is going.

    The real danger here from the illegal aliens is the way we respond by being willing to destroy our own freedoms.

    There is a big difference between investigating and randomly stopping people going about their business, and minding their own business.

    Merely going down the highway is not permission for authorities to intrude into your life.

  14. #43
    bae
    bae is offline
    Member Array bae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    San Juan Islands
    Posts
    257
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Do you want to be randomly stopped on the street in front of your house, down the block, where you work, and be asked for papers.
    Note carefully where I live. The San Juan Islands. In the state of Washington.

    When I travel to the mainland, to the adjacent county, I must go through a Border Patrol checkpoint, even though I am travelling entirely within the US, on a state highway, on the state ferry system.

    I am quite familiar with the laws, and how the checkpoints operate.

    They ask me nicely if I am a citizen. If I respond yes, they wave me on. They do not, and can not, ask for "papers". If however I choose not to respond, they can hold be for a "reasonable" amount of time while they verify that I have a right to be in the country, even though all my travel has been within the US. You might want to read up on the pile of Supreme Court cases about why this is so.

    That is where this stuff is going.
    No, not really. The Supreme Court has been all over the Border Patrol, placing limits on how they can operate. Before you panic, you might want to read the cases.

  15. #44
    Member Array airbornerangerboogie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    478
    I don't see it as an invasion of my rights to stop and render aid to a federal agent trying to catch illegals. Now, if she shows up at my door to search my house then we have an altogether different problem. I see the illegals problem as a crisis that needs to be dealt with and they've been given the thankless task without the funds nor manpower to carry out the job. If I can make it a little easier by just cooperating and being pleasant about it I'm at least making the task a little easier.
    Nope IMOP the guy is just a jerk, not a patriot.
    “Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.” James Dean
    Phil (NRA Member and Vietnam Vet)
    ------------- My CCW ----------------
    No Guns Here Boss
    I gave them to the naked Pigmy's in New Guinea

  16. #45
    Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado at 11,650'
    Posts
    12,265
    Quote Originally Posted by airbornerangerboogie View Post
    I don't see it as an invasion of my rights to stop and render aid to a federal agent trying to catch illegals. Now, if she shows up at my door to search my house then we have an altogether different problem.
    Exactly. A very different issue IMHO.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Playmobile Security Check Point
    By njr in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: February 1st, 2009, 12:29 PM
  2. Homeland security needs?
    By HollowpointHank in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: July 16th, 2008, 04:51 PM
  3. Homeland security discount
    By DetroitMedic in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 7th, 2007, 07:24 PM
  4. Homeland Security to watch web use
    By 4my sons in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: November 23rd, 2006, 12:10 PM

Search tags for this page

any way to avoid the check point on i 10 near el paso

,

defensive carry smugglers coyotes

,
homeland security check police dispatch
,
refuse dhs checkpoint questions
,
what is the easiest check point in texas
Click on a term to search for related topics.