Rules of engagement is an oxymoron

Rules of engagement is an oxymoron

This is a discussion on Rules of engagement is an oxymoron within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Rant on. There was a knock at the door this evening. One of my son's friends is on leave from Iraq and he stopped in ...

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Thread: Rules of engagement is an oxymoron

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Rules of engagement is an oxymoron

    Rant on.

    There was a knock at the door this evening. One of my son's friends is on leave from Iraq and he stopped in to say hello.

    This is a young man whose dad is military and his older brother was killed in Iraq. We were discussing some of his exploits and the topic came up of rules of engagement. He was telling me of some, nay, many of the restrictions that are place on him yet the enemy doesn't seem to have any of these arbitrary rules. He puts his life on the line, yet he can not defend himself unless certain conditions are met. This is just so stupid.

    I know all you military guys out there know what I am talking about. I was never in the military, but I know that if we were to let the military do what they do best, with none of these politically correct restrictions, we could kick butt in the Middle East within a few short months. Then we could probably all come home in one piece.

    Sorry. But I just had to get that off my chest.

    Rant off.
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    I whole heartedly agree. There have been times where we've been shot at by AK's...but due to our altitude, armor, and the fact that AK's are small arms (we're in a helicopter), we couldn't return fire. Other times it's been called "celebratory fire"...toward a U.S. Helicopter? Yeah right.
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    Hmm, not sure how much I can or should say about this one. They are a necessity in our current operating world for many reasons, but more like a necessary evil.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    In almost every conflict we have ever been involved in we have had our hands tied by rules of engagement,In a lot of instances we had people getting shot at but they had to call in for permission to return fire and unless permission was given if they did return fire were looking at a court martial
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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Politics have no business delving into intelligence or warfare. The first prevents the second when allowed to work properly. The injection of politics usually ensures both are screwed.
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    I must agree with dukalmighty and SixBravo, politics have no place in a combat zone. While I was in RVN you not only had to request permission to return fire but you had to account for all ammo used, if no permission was given and you happened to come up even one round short you could wind up in LBJ (Long Bien Jail).

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Funny thing this 'rules of engagement' you speak of........thier set buy people in high authority positions but nowhere near the front (or even the REAR) lines.

    I have to stop, it's too early to get this worked up. It's 'good' to hear/see others realize what having our hands 'tied' like that is like.
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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixBravo View Post
    Politics have no business delving into intelligence....
    And, given what I usually see on the news, there ISN'T much intelligence in politics. SIGH!

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    Ron
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    Here is my take as former military and currently as a civilian citizen: Wen we, as a country, send our young men and women into harms way to fight for us, it borders on the obscene to fail to use all of our military might to protect them. Rules of engagement, that are politically oriented, and that increase their risk of being killed or injured are morally unacceptable.

    If we are unwilling to do everthing within our power to win, we should not ask our young people to make the sacrifice. Just my opinion.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    As a former Marine with plenty of time at the pointy end of the stick, I couldn't agree more.

    Having said that though, remember, when we carry, we deal with a specific set of ROI every single day too. Not all that different when you think about it.

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    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    .
    Having said that though, remember, when we carry, we deal with a specific set of ROI every single day too. Not all that different when you think about it.
    I must respectfully disagree. There is a world of difference between being sent into combat as part of the military and being prevented from fully engaging the enemy and protecting yourself by limiting rules of engagement, and voluntarily deciding to carry a gun. Apples and Oranges, IMO.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post

    I must respectfully disagree. There is a world of difference between being sent into combat as part of the military and being prevented from fully engaging the enemy and protecting yourself by limiting rules of engagement, and voluntarily deciding to carry a gun. Apples and Oranges, IMO.


    Sorry, you missed my point......or maybe I didn't articulate it well.

    I didn't say that the in-theater ROI wasn't too restrictive, just that the ROI that we deal with every day isn't that different from what he'll have to deal with over there.

    Having said that, a more restrictive ROI is an enormous and dangerous pain in the rear, but it's an unfortunate limitation that comes with an urban battlefield in which combatants are interspersed with innocent civilians. You'll hear lots of "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" from the troops, but when it comes right down to it, no Marine or soldier wants to harm an innocent that isn't an actual threat any more than you or I do.

    Give me a well defined battlefield any day!
    Last edited by David in FL; May 13th, 2008 at 03:09 PM.

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Shouldnt that be "ROE" (Rules of Engagement)
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    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Does anyone know when we started using rules of engagement in modern warfare? Was it in Korea? Cold war? WWII?

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    Stan as long as I know in Modern warfare it pretty much began with Vietnam and then progressed with small police actions since then. I'm sure they had ROE's before, but thats where it appears they start getting more restrictive.
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