Would you show ID to an LEO?

This is a discussion on Would you show ID to an LEO? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Yes, on demand, I'm happy to provide identification....

View Poll Results: Would you show ID to an LEO if asked?

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  • Yes

    169 68.98%
  • No

    2 0.82%
  • Depends on the circumstances

    74 30.20%
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Thread: Would you show ID to an LEO?

  1. #16
    Member Array Erik's Avatar
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    Yes, on demand, I'm happy to provide identification.
    God, country, family.

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  3. #17
    JD
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Refusing to Give Name a Crime
    Supreme Court Upholds Nevada Law Requiring Identification

    By Charles Lane
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Tuesday, June 22, 2004; Page A06

    The Supreme Court yesterday upheld a state law that makes it a crime to refuse to tell the police one's name when stopped for suspicious behavior, a ruling that strengthens the ability of law enforcement officers to detain citizens even where they lack enough evidence for a full arrest.

    By a vote of 5 to 4, the court ruled that Larry Dudley Hiibel's constitutional rights to be free of unreasonable arrest and to remain silent were not violated when Deputy Lee Dove arrested him for refusing to give his name after Dove stopped Hiibel and questioned him near Winnemucca, Nev., on May 21, 2000. Hiibel was convicted of violating Nevada's "stop and identify" law and fined $250.

    Hiibel and his supporters, such as the American Civil Liberties Union, had urged the court to strike down the Nevada statute, arguing that it effectively criminalizes a citizen's silence. Advocates for the homeless had argued that laws such as Nevada's could be used to harass homeless people, who are often mentally ill or lack identification cards.

    But the author of the majority opinion, Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, made it clear that he regarded the disclosure of one's name, the only piece of information the Nevada law specifically requires, as a modest intrusion on privacy.

    And whatever privacy interest or concern about self-incrimination Hiibel might have had was outweighed by the state's interests in protecting police officers and investigating crime, Kennedy wrote.

    "As best we can tell, [Hiibel] refused to identify himself only because he thought his name was none of the officer's business," Kennedy wrote. "Even today, [Hiibel] does not explain how the disclosure of his name could have been used against him in a criminal case."

    Kennedy was joined by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justices Sandra Day O'Connor, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas.

    Eighteen other states have laws like Nevada's, but not all of them provide for criminal penalties.

    Nevada's law says that police may detain anyone "under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime," and that "any person so detained shall identify himself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry."

    It was intended to codify the Supreme Court's 1968 decision in Terry v. Ohio. That case empowered police to briefly detain suspicious subjects -- such as people who seem to be "casing" a bank in preparation for a robbery -- question them and search them for weapons.

    The court created "Terry stops" to cover situations in which the police have "reasonable suspicion" of criminal conduct but not enough information for "probable cause," the constitutional standard for making an arrest.

    Until yesterday, the court had never clearly said what police may require of a citizen in a Terry stop -- although in a famous concurrence to Terry, Justice Byron R. White had said there is no obligation to respond to police questions.

    Hiibel, a rancher who sports a Stetson hat, made his case to the public on a Web site that includes a videotape of his encounter with Dove. The film, shot by a camera mounted on Dove's car, shows a possibly inebriated Hiibel refusing 11 requests for his name before being handcuffed and arrested.

    Dove, responding to a tip about a man punching a woman in a pickup truck, had come upon Hiibel standing next to his pickup on the side of a road. His teenage daughter was in the cab.

    Hiibel had argued that the Nevada law turns Terry into a license to arrest people just for seeming suspicious. But Kennedy said that would not happen because "an officer may not arrest a suspect for failure to identify himself if the request for identification is not reasonably related to the circumstances justifying the [Terry] stop."

    As for the risk of self-incrimination from disclosing one's name to police, Kennedy said that would happen "only in unusual circumstances."

    But Justice John Paul Stevens, in a dissenting opinion, called this assumption "quite wrong." Hiibel's name could have helped police link him to criminal activity, Stevens noted, so he "acted well within his rights when he opted to stand mute."

    Justice Stephen G. Breyer, joined by Justices David H. Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, also dissented, arguing that the court should have endorsed the position outlined in White's Terry concurrence.

    The case is Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, No. 03-5554.
    ____________________________________



    If you have an urge to ask why you are being asked to identify yourself, shut up.

    It won't help the situation in which you are being asked for ID to have a discussion with the officer, and could potentially hurt you.

    Identify yourself. Provide your ID. Ask if you are free to leave. If so, leave.

    If not, ask for counsel and remain silent.

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array Slim_45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdoctor View Post
    absolutely yes.
    I am one of the good guys. and if an LEO asks, I have no problem producing.
    I can't think of a circumstance that I would deny an LEO a reasonable request.
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  6. #20
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    What can it hurt? If he decided to launch into a "you don't need a gun" speech I'd be sure to get in touch with the Sheriff/Chief.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Since I carry all the time, yes, because I live in the great state of Texas, I would as required by law.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Of course I would. Why should I not? I have nothing to hide and see nothing to be gained by being uncooperative with a police officer who for whatever reason would like to see my identification.

  9. #23
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    Speaking only for myself and no matter the state i am in i hand my ccw to any LE with my id . I dont make a production of stating i am armed , but my permit is handed over with my id on contact . I for one want the officer to know that there is another gun on the contact and dont want it to be any kind of supprise for either of us .
    I believe the question was about showing id when asked for no particular reason. Not specifically gun related. Like walking down the street, shopping for groceries, ect. and an officer asks for id without known reason.

    MitchellCT, it looks like the laws differ between states. In Pa. you do not have to show your papers without reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

  10. #24
    Member Array mavis311's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdoctor View Post
    absolutely yes.
    I am one of the good guys. and if an LEO asks, I have no problem producing.
    I can't think of a circumstance that I would deny an LEO a reasonable request.
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    If under the conditions of a "Terry" stop, yes -- without hesitation.

    If while exercising any "privilege" that carries with it the need to ID oneself to have that "privilege", yes -- without hesitation.

    In most emergency situations (assuming I understand -- w/ or w/o an explanation for the LEO), yes.

    In a "Papers Please!!!" or other internal passport situation, No!
    Quote Originally Posted by StevePVB View Post
    What can it hurt? If he decided to launch into a "you don't need a gun" speech I'd be sure to get in touch with the Sheriff/Chief.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    I'm pretty sure the poll is not talking about showing license to carry vs not, but showing any ID vs not.

    When the Gestapo goes national, you better believe I am going to be as anonymous as I possibly can be.
    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Of course I would. Why should I not? I have nothing to hide and see nothing to be gained by being uncooperative with a police officer who for whatever reason would like to see my identification.

    Yes.
    I don't know what you mean by "Terry", but yes.
    Yes.
    Yes.
    And yes.

    If, however, I was approached by an officer who was unreasonably unpleasant or gave me reason to think s/he would react poorly to knowledge of my concealed weapon, I would not inform him/her unless required to do so by law. An emergency situation might override that. Otherwise, I consider it a courtesy to the officer even though I'm sure they are rarely trained to treat the good guys with guns any differently from the bad guys with guns unless we're talking about a sound stage in Hollywood.
    mavis

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    Always have always will if I have ID on me. The law does not require that we have ID, but we have to give our name if asked. If I am not driving and not carrying a gun (which will never happen, I hope) Then I may not carry ID. The only reason I have ID is because I drive and carry concealed.

  12. #26
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    Why would they ask if there was no reason?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    MitchellCT, it looks like the laws differ between states. In Pa. you do not have to show your papers without reasonable suspicion or probable cause.
    How do you know if the officer does or does not have reasonable suspicion?

    Are you going to ask him why he wants to see your ID?

    Are you planning on having a debate with the officer as to his interpretation of reasonable suspicion?

    What if he declines to get into the discussion and merely asks for your ID again?

    What will you do if he tells you and you believe his suspicion is unfounded?

  14. #28
    Member Array MichaelJ07's Avatar
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    Absolutley would show my card without hesitation.
    In a crisis situation, you will not rise to the occasion but default to your level of training.

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    But the author of the majority opinion, Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, made it clear that he regarded the disclosure of one's name, the only piece of information the Nevada law specifically requires, as a modest intrusion on privacy.
    I really don't think this is the issue here. This case was only for refusing to give your name, not your id. A very narrow ruling, not the broader question posted here.

    I don't think anyone here, or most places, would refuse to tell a LEO their name, it's the providing id that has some here balking.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Absolutely since it's a state law if your carrying.
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