WWII: Why we fought

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Thread: WWII: Why we fought

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    WWII: Why we fought

    One of my many favorite clips from "Band of Brothers":

    Why we fought:

    YouTube - Band of Brothers - It seems that the Germans are bad
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

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    Because there was no choice

    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    One of my many favorite clips from "Band of Brothers":

    Why we fought:

    YouTube - Band of Brothers - It seems that the Germans are bad
    The US really did everything reasonable and somethings quite unreasonable to stay out of WWII. We didn't fight because the Germans were bad, or because they were killing Jews, or because they were bombing London and had screwed over the Poles.

    Lots of "Americans" thought what the Germans did was OK; there were different attitudes back then.

    We didn't fight the Japanese because they killed millions in China; it was none of our business.

    We fought WWII because we had no choice.

    Japan attacked us and Hitler then declared war upon us.

    There were no options left.

    It is nice that we think so kindly and proudly of our predecessors and ancestors, and give them credit for nobly saving the world. They did of course. But only after the job was forced upon them.

    Before Dec. 7, 1941 there were active Nazi party agitators in the US; supported by large segments of the German-American community.
    There were isolationists. There may well have been pro-Japanese factions--I do not know.

    There was plenty with anti-British sentiment and people who couldn't care less if Germany continued to bomb the heck out of the UK.

    We probably forced Japan's hand with economic embargoes on steel and oil exports, but I think that was excuse, and not cause.

    The war was going to happen because the dictators of Germany, Japan, Italy, like BGs everywhere, knew no bounds to their evil. They brought their evil to our territory, and forced us to act.

    Like all BGs, they were dumber than the utter filth they (and their adherents) were. Had they been a little smarter, they'd have figured out a way to keep us neutral, while attaining their goals.

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    Senior Member Array rdoggsilva's Avatar
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    Well said.
    John Steinbeck: Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

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    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    Kudos to hopyard!
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    If we didn't care about the Japanese in China, why did we get volunteers to go fight with the Chinese against them, supply them with arms, airplanes, etc. There were a lot of American's fighting with the Chinese against the Japanese, long before we were in the war.

    I was in China for a month recently.... and the area I was in was occupied by the Japanese for a long time. They are quick to tell you all the atrocities that occurred and how they still hate the Japanese as a result. They also do remember, that Amercian's helped them in the fight against them.

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    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    The Flying Tigers, using a few aircraft, destroyed the Japanese Red Dragon division as it was crossing a bridge over the Salween river.

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    Clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    If we didn't care about the Japanese in China, why did we get volunteers to go fight with the Chinese against them, supply them with arms, airplanes, etc. There were a lot of American's fighting with the Chinese against the Japanese, long before we were in the war.

    I was in China for a month recently.... and the area I was in was occupied by the Japanese for a long time. They are quick to tell you all the atrocities that occurred and how they still hate the Japanese as a result. They also do remember, that Amercian's helped them in the fight against them.
    WE didn't care enough. Yes, there were volunteers in China before the outbreak of formal war. US citizens also enlisted in the British army.

    The we I am talking about was our political leadership-Congress, which vigorously opposed involvement, and I believe that was a very accurate reflection of general public opinion.

    Japanese soldiers lived in my wife's house while she as an infant lived in a cave. They burned her uncle to death by pouting gas on him and lighting him. They probably killed her grandfather a few months before the actual outbreak of hostilities.

    I don't need a lesson in Japanese atrocities. All I was saying is that for the most part America was isolationist and would do nothing to intervene until forced by attack on Pearl, and declaration of war against us by Hitler.

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    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    Also don't forget that "we" had volunteers fighting in the Spanish civil war. It is impossible for me to tell how wide spread support was for that back then, or if average americans even knew about that war going on. On that note, you don't hear anything like that today. If "we" fight a war, its because someone tells us to it seems.
    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)

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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The we I am talking about was our political leadership-Congress, which vigorously opposed involvement, and I believe that was a very accurate reflection of general public opinion.

    I don't need a lesson in Japanese atrocities. All I was saying is that for the most part America was isolationist and would do nothing to intervene until forced by attack on Pearl, and declaration of war against us by Hitler.
    I wholeheartedly agree. Also, Hopyard, very good description of how and why we got involved in WWII.

    I would also suggest that we have learned from history and that Bush did not wait until the enemy forced us into war to confront the evil. Bush, like every other president is controversial while in office. I believe history will find him one of our greatest presidents if we do not let up and allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons.

    Waiting until an American city is annihilated to militarily confront an enemy is the wrong course for our nation's survival. We can no longer expect an isolationist position to be an effective strategy. We never could. That is the main reason Ron Paul was rejected as a viable candidate.

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    And exactly what was 9/11/2001

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree. Also, Hopyard, very good description of how and why we got involved in WWII.

    I would also suggest that we have learned from history and that Bush did not wait until the enemy forced us into war to confront the evil. .
    Of course he waited until the enemy forced us into war. We were forced into war on 9/11. What is much less clear is whether or not we were forced into war with Iraq.

    I have a mixed view here. I had wished Bush I finished them off the first time.

    After the Gulf War, I was sick of daily reading that they were shooting at our planes while we enforced the post Iraq I no fly zones.
    This was reason enough --without the outlandish lies about weapons of mass destruction which didn't exist--- to go to war a second time and finish Sadam. (And I am utterly conflicted, as is this country, on what we should do now about getting out, staying, sort of staying, sort of getting out, setting time tables, letting them kill each other, killing them all on our own.)

    I am also of mixed view regarding Iran. They gave us a cause for war back during the Carter administration, and had our "rescue" effort turned into a shooting match instead of a mess in the desert, that war would have happened in 1981 and history would be entirely different. They have been asking for it ever since. And we have I think been doing our utmost to avoid. Now things will be far worse than 30 years ago.

    BTW, though no fan of GWB, I really like the current Defense Secretary, Dr. Gates. Maybe that is because I live near A&M and once met his wife at a friend's birthday party.* In any case, he seems like a class act. Again, history would be different had he been in this position at the start. I believe he has stated that he would like to see GITMO closed as quickly as possible, but does not see a legal path forward to allow that.

    *Putting a human and personal face on our high leaders makes it somewhat difficult to bash them as sub-human evil beings.

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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Of course he waited until the enemy forced us into war. We were forced into war on 9/11. What is much less clear is whether or not we were forced into war with Iraq.
    One could argue we were forced into war in the '80s after the Lebanon bombings, the WTC bombing, the USS Cole, the Iranian hostage crisis...

    The fact is that Bush correctly engaged the enemy and rightly decided (though many disagree) to stop a growing threat to the US in Iraq. We made a stand before things progressed to even more danger.

    I have a mixed view here. I had wished Bush I finished them off the first time.
    I agree.

    After the Gulf War, I was sick of daily reading that they were shooting at our planes while we enforced the post Iraq I no fly zones.
    This was reason enough --without the outlandish lies about weapons of mass destruction which didn't exist--- to go to war a second time and finish Sadam. (And I am utterly conflicted, as is this country, on what we should do now about getting out, staying, sort of staying, sort of getting out, setting time tables, letting them kill each other, killing them all on our own.)
    I will not get into the WMD discussion. Let's just say there was sufficient warning to allow Iraq to move those weapons to a errorist friendly state (Syria.)

    I am also of mixed view regarding Iran. They gave us a cause for war back during the Carter administration, and had our "rescue" effort turned into a shooting match instead of a mess in the desert, that war would have happened in 1981 and history would be entirely different. They have been asking for it ever since. And we have I think been doing our utmost to avoid. Now things will be far worse than 30 years ago.
    The axis of evil was not a political rhetoric. Iran, Iraq and North Korea were, by far, the biggest threats to America. Iraq was addressed first for a number of reasons. Iran is now in our crosshairs. If we err in this we will pay an horrendous proce in the future.

    BTW, though no fan of GWB, I really like the current Defense Secretary, Dr. Gates. Maybe that is because I live near A&M and once met his wife at a friend's birthday party.* In any case, he seems like a class act. Again, history would be different had he been in this position at the start. I believe he has stated that he would like to see GITMO closed as quickly as possible, but does not see a legal path forward to allow that.
    Gates is a good man. Rumsfeld is a good man. Perhaps Rumsfeld's strategy was ineffective but it is difficult to know what will happen in war. If Petraeus would have been in charge from the beginning Rumsfeld would be hailed as a great hero.

    *Putting a human and personal face on our high leaders makes it somewhat difficult to bash them as sub-human evil beings.
    That is so true. All these politicians, no matter how misguided, truly believe they have the best interests of the United States in mind.

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    SD, I think we hijacked this thread.

    Sorry to one and all.

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    SD, I think we hijacked this thread.

    Sorry to one and all.






    Personally I think you two were moving the discussion forward... for what it's worth.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    I don't need a lesson in Japanese atrocities. All I was saying is that for the most part America was isolationist and would do nothing to intervene until forced by attack on Pearl, and declaration of war against us by Hitler

    One member of the US House voted against the declaration of war against Japan. Montana pacifist Jeanette Rankin cast the dissenting vote.

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    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    If we didn't care about the Japanese in China, why did we get volunteers to go fight with the Chinese against them, supply them with arms, airplanes, etc. There were a lot of American's fighting with the Chinese against the Japanese, long before we were in the war.

    I was in China for a month recently.... and the area I was in was occupied by the Japanese for a long time. They are quick to tell you all the atrocities that occurred and how they still hate the Japanese as a result. They also do remember, that Amercian's helped them in the fight against them.

    That went on for eight years. With the Japanese telling the US they had no idea what they doing supporting the communist party in China. It was that involvement that lead to Pearl Harbor. The Japanese felt they had no choice but to sink the fleet providing the Communist with arms medical supplies and "advisors". With no concept of the industrial power of the US. The greatest single strategic move the Chinese Communist made was to hold the Japanese off in Hong Kong making the war UK's problem. We ended up creating the largest threat to US security that exist to this day. If you doubt that try to buy a product in the US not made in China or look at the money we owe China. Personally I think all the "accidents" we have with Chinese products are deliberate covert attacks by China. We have not yet begun to really regret how much we have helped China but our children will.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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