Todays episode of...What the? - Page 3

Todays episode of...What the?

This is a discussion on Todays episode of...What the? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I pass out and my my phone won't wake me. The dogs won't wake me. Yelling won't wake me. But if someone makes my bedroom ...

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  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    I pass out and my my phone won't wake me. The dogs won't wake me. Yelling won't wake me. But if someone makes my bedroom door creak, I wake up.

    Being as I know where my roommate is right now (not home), that door creaking would have resulted in a beam of light and the click of a 1911 safety.

    I can't see very well. But I am practiced with my 45 without my lenses. I just hope that they wouldn't have shot me before I identified them as police officers.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Those saying what they would have done are not likely to have been in this specific situation, so what they would have done is not relevant.

    OK, the police had contact with people in the home, four scared kids. In company with one or more of the kids that live there (both as witness to what is done and to clue the dad that a crime is not being committed if he looks out the window), close the garage door, pull the truck keys, lock the truck, give the keys to one of the kids to put in the kitchen, lecture kids about leaving door open, and drive off. Try to contact dad the next day (being sure to praise the kids for their level headed behavior, even if they were foolish).

    How's that sound?

  3. #33
    Member Array riverkeeper's Avatar
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    No problem with the cops.

    THE FRONT DOOR WAS MORE THAN UNLOCKED ˘˘˘ IT WAS OPEN AT 3AM PLUS LIGHTS, ETC + NO RESPONSE.

    Possible crime scene. GOOD COPS!


    What would fish wrap and cable be screaming about these cops if they patrolled by numerous times while kids and adults were dying inside?

    Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

    I want these guys working my neighborhood.

    Edit-- Does anyone think the cops entered the home without loudly and repeatedly identifying themselves ... dude was prolly partied out and stoned or drunk. You kill a cop under that scenario ... you will go to jail. Castle Doctrine does not apply if cops did their job correctly.
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  4. #34
    Member Array Hagphish's Avatar
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    I find this extremely disturbing. There are plenty of nights I leave my back door open with just a screened storm door closed. All of my windows may be opened as well. That does not mean that I want a police officer coming into my house or anyone else for that matter.

    What if the man was in the shower after getting home from his third shift warehouse job? What if the cops walked in on he and his girlfriend/wife going to town in the bedroom? This does not seem like a good idea on the LEO's part.

    If I was that man, the cops would have woken me up with a 1911 pointed at their heads ,or worse yet, a surefire and a 12 g and my girlfriend with a 9mm...then what? Sounds like asking for trouble to me.

    I grew up in the country in Texas where it was perfectly normal to leave the doors unlocked and occationally open at night. Again, this does not mean that I am inviting anyone into my home.
    I'm married to my Kahr.

  5. #35
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    In the middle of the night with my wife beside me, I KNOW that if anybody else is in the house I can fire because I KNOW they have no business being there. I sleep with my bedroom door locked. If somebody tried to open my bedroom door I shouldn't have to think about whether it's just somebody checking on me. In short, I might fire through the door rather than wait for them to get in.
    I have read all the posts so far in this thread and I think the cops did the rights thing: they investigated a suspicious scene.

    What I do have a problem with is the idea of not identifying your target because you think you know it is a BG. I remember a man recently shot his daughter who he 'knew' should not be sneaking in a basement window.

    Shooting someone through a closed door, even in Texas, seems problematic.

    I'm sure the police were well aware of the potential dangers of their actions. Police work can be a dangerous occupation.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    Those saying what they would have done are not likely to have been in this specific situation, so what they would have done is not relevant.

    OK, the police had contact with people in the home, four scared kids. In company with one or more of the kids that live there (both as witness to what is done and to clue the dad that a crime is not being committed if he looks out the window), close the garage door, pull the truck keys, lock the truck, give the keys to one of the kids to put in the kitchen, lecture kids about leaving door open, and drive off. Try to contact dad the next day (being sure to praise the kids for their level headed behavior, even if they were foolish).

    How's that sound?

    Pretty bad. What if Dad was in the bedroom dead or dying? What if there was no adult home? What if... You get the point. You just cant walk away from a situation like that, and leave a juv. in charge of who knows what.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
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    The Cops down here understand that every 1 in 5 houses are armed. If they do enter they make darned sure that the owner should hear them (Phone Calls, etc...). If they enter a home without the homeowner knowing they are cops, they are putting their life at risk. If they walk in unannounced there is not an exception in the Florida Constitution for stupidity on the part of the police, My Castle is My Castle under God and under the Law. If I choose to leave my doors and windows open it is my choice, it may be stupid but it is still my choice not theirs.
    Last edited by Bumper; June 21st, 2008 at 08:24 PM. Reason: profanity removed
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  8. #38
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    I don't know what Lakeville is like, but in all honesty, I'll sleep on my porch and not worry about it. Small town and rural folks are different. My dog sleeps next to me and if your within a 100 yards, she will wake me without barking at you. People around here don't bother people at night. I don't think the Officer's should have gone beyond the kids, or the front door unless the kids invited them in. As far as being afraid to wake dad, it's probably the norm, wake me up with a bunch of noise, and no more sleepovers.
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  9. #39
    Member Array Wilky1121's Avatar
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    I agree with the earlier posts saying it was kind of "darned if you do, darned if you don't" situation. While it's true most people would be justified in waking up to see an intruder and then shooting them, I also think you have a certain responsibility to avoid situations where that would crop up. Just because you're equipped to handle trouble doesn't mean you should invite it or go looking for it.

    Leaving your door open at three in the morning, keys in the ignition to your car, not responding to someone knocking on the door are all earmarks of a crime scene and all of the above attract an unwanted element (This isn't to say LEO's are bad by any stretch of the imagination, most of us just don't want the cops waking us up at 3 am in our own beds). Arming yourself for self defense shouldn't begin and end with a firearm, it's a mindset and the firearm is one of many tools available. It's not difficult to avoid the situation described by the paper, and I'm glad it resolved peacefully (albeit maybe relatively).
    People do not lack strength; they lack will. Victor Hugo

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    I also see the logic of "doing the job" by investigating threatening situations, risky situations or apparent evidence of a crime having occurred. Some may certainly deem this attempting to protect folks from their own carelessness and stupidity. I, however, view this specific instance, going by the articulated "facts" apparent at the time by the investigating LEO's, that having a police force watch out for folks is a good thing.

    Now, I don't really agree with the idea that a police officer can walk into my home unacknowledged and uninvited, but then this isn't a "search" type situation. It seems more of a homeowner-might-be-raped-or-dead type situation.

    And, yes, they're lucky they didn't get a homeowner who wakes up cranky and groggy. So is the homeowner.

    Keep in mind that a wide open door at 3am could easily be evidence that a crime has already occurred at a residence. Non-response to knocks, yells for attention, rings of the phone, whatever. That, alone, would be sufficient cause for concern, in my book, particularly in an area with rampant crime.

    I've got a neighbor that simply refuses to acknowledge the risk presented by his continued refusal to close his garage door after dark. That garage is attached to his home via his kitchen door. He's got a wife and two young children. He doesn't get it, either, and this neighborhood has had a few home invasions over the past several years. I, myself, have knocked on his door a few times, to remind him his garage door is open and his kitchen door is in plain view. He hasn't, so far, gotten perturbed, at least not to me.

    In a situation where one's garage door is wide open, one's front door is wide open, all occupants are asleep and the keys are in the cars ... well, one can ask the simple question: would you prefer (a) criminals enter to harm your family or (b) police enter to help you avoid (a)? It's that simple, I think.

    I'd prefer to remember to lock my doors and protect my family myself. Despite any misgivings I would have about a perceived violation, in the end I believe it would be hard not to feel relief that someone's watching my "six" and keeping an eye on threats or such open invitations like wide open doors.

    Now, I'm no fan of uninvited intrusion into my home. Not by a long shot. But I can appreciate an appropriate investigation of a risky situation, particularly when slumbering occupants are at grave risk of crime as a result. Don't want intrusion? Lock and bar the doors/entry, and turn on the perimeter alarm (four-legged variety or electronic).

    Kudos to the LEO's involved.
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  11. #41
    Member Array AgentX's Avatar
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    This all also points to the value of community policing, with regular and established contact between beat officers and residents.

    The cops are better off knowing what's normal and what's not on their beat--who lives where, what their names are, who's prone to leave open doors, who's likely to shoot at them if they enter a house unbidden, etc.

    Likewise, "Joe, are you home?! It's Officer Barbrady! Is everything all right? Tony, Joe Jr., are you here?!" might get a better and more accurate response than random yells of "Police! Who's in there?"

    Just a thought and not a stone thrown at anyone, especially as the article doesn't give us a perfect picture of exactly what the officers did.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Lesson learned? I'm neutral on the home entry. Cops got a bad rap of darned if you do, darned if you don't on that. 'To serve and protect'. I think they pretty much did that in this case.
    I have one question to ponder though---what would have happened if they found a bag of weed laying on the night stand? Just a what if---you know.
    yeah well...that's why I don't like that motto or train of thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I also see the logic of "doing the job" by investigating threatening situations, risky situations or apparent evidence of a crime having occurred. Some may certainly deem this attempting to protect folks from their own carelessness and stupidity. I, however, view this specific instance, going by the articulated "facts" apparent at the time by the investigating LEO's, that having a police force watch out for folks is a good thing.

    Now, I don't really agree with the idea that a police officer can walk into my home unacknowledged and uninvited, but then this isn't a "search" type situation. It seems more of a homeowner-might-be-raped-or-dead type situation.

    And, yes, they're lucky they didn't get a homeowner who wakes up cranky and groggy. So is the homeowner.

    Keep in mind that a wide open door at 3am could easily be evidence that a crime has already occurred at a residence. Non-response to knocks, yells for attention, rings of the phone, whatever. That, alone, would be sufficient cause for concern, in my book, particularly in an area with rampant crime.

    I've got a neighbor that simply refuses to acknowledge the risk presented by his continued refusal to close his garage door after dark. That garage is attached to his home via his kitchen door. He's got a wife and two young children. He doesn't get it, either, and this neighborhood has had a few home invasions over the past several years. I, myself, have knocked on his door a few times, to remind him his garage door is open and his kitchen door is in plain view. He hasn't, so far, gotten perturbed, at least not to me.

    In a situation where one's garage door is wide open, one's front door is wide open, all occupants are asleep and the keys are in the cars ... well, one can ask the simple question: would you prefer (a) criminals enter to harm your family or (b) police enter to help you avoid (a)? It's that simple, I think.

    I'd prefer to remember to lock my doors and protect my family myself. Despite any misgivings I would have about a perceived violation, in the end I believe it would be hard not to feel relief that someone's watching my "six" and keeping an eye on threats or such open invitations like wide open doors.

    Now, I'm no fan of uninvited intrusion into my home. Not by a long shot. But I can appreciate an appropriate investigation of a risky situation, particularly when slumbering occupants are at grave risk of crime as a result. Don't want intrusion? Lock and bar the doors/entry, and turn on the perimeter alarm (four-legged variety or electronic).

    Kudos to the LEO's involved.
    Sorry, I'm one of those "nuts" that disagree's with that whole concept. I don't want someone following along behind me all day making sure I'm ok. If I need help...I'll call. If not ....see ya on the other side.
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  13. #43
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Sorry, I'm one of those "nuts" that disagree's with that whole concept. I don't want someone following along behind me all day making sure I'm ok.
    Well, there's policing and there's "following along behind" folks all day.

    Desk jockeys only have so much value. Street beat policing has value beyond that. If police cruising through a neighborhood notice a front door is open but the lights are off, or if a cruiser on the boulevard notices that the doors are flung wide open at Macy's, wouldn't it be a good thing that an investigation is made?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  14. #44
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    The cops did the right thing. The castle doctrine doesn't apply to cops in the line of duty, so don't go shooting cops and end up in jail. The question isn't if you think it was in the line of duty, but would the jury that is trying you?
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  15. #45
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    There is zero justification for walking into someone's house where no request has been made nor is there any obvious problem. If the homeowner wants to leave his doors unlocked, open or whatever, that is his business. Both parties are very lucky that no one was shot. Stupidest thing that I have read in a very long time.

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