Todays episode of...What the? - Page 4

Todays episode of...What the?

This is a discussion on Todays episode of...What the? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I also have mixed feelings abou this. But, once again, Lima said what I would have and said it better than I could have....

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Thread: Todays episode of...What the?

  1. #46
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    See Limatune's reply

    I also have mixed feelings abou this. But, once again, Lima said what I would have and said it better than I could have.
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranburr View Post
    There is zero justification for walking into someone's house where no request has been made nor is there any obvious problem.
    Exactly so ... as in, an open door and lights off at 3am, in an otherwise quiet, well-maintained neighborhood, in which the patrols know that sort of thing is out of the ordinary and a strong indicator for potential crime having occurred/occurring at that house.
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  3. #48
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Exactly so ... as in, an open door and lights off at 3am, in an otherwise quiet, well-maintained neighborhood, in which the patrols know that sort of thing is out of the ordinary and a strong indicator for potential crime having occurred/occurring at that house.
    Not exactly. If you read the original article they said they were doing this regularly in the same areas. Only thing is, previously, they left notes on the folks doors reminding them to lock up. So it seems they know folks in that area leave their doors etc... open regularly. So I'm calling baloney on that one.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  4. #49
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    Big difference between noticing an unlocked door (leaving a note) and suspecting that the unlocked door may be indicative of the commission of a crime (investigating the scene). The officers felt, obviously, that it was the latter, given the circumstances they were in. Seeing as the article can't be considered a complete, necessarily accurate and/or impartial report of the incident, none of us are in a position to judge whether their suspicions were valid or not.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Pretty bad. What if Dad was in the bedroom dead or dying? What if there was no adult home? What if... You get the point. You just cant walk away from a situation like that, and leave a juv. in charge of who knows what.
    OK.

    This is such a situational question, I don't think a hard and fast rule is possible. Then again, my butt has not been on the line for that sort of decision. I'd like to prolong the enjoyment of being deprived of the experience.

    I wonder if Dad just moved in from a rural area where leaving things like that was not a problem.

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Not exactly.
    Yes, exactly. There is indeed zero justification, under the circumstances I was responding to.

    OTOH, if articulable cause in a neighborhood they know well ...

    As suggested by others, none of us were there, so to what degree it smelt like a risk, who can say.

    I agree with all who say it's not the type of thing I'd particularly like, either. But then, it's matter of degrees. Which would I prefer: (a) criminals entering to rape/kill me and my family, or (b) police entering to, ostensibly, check things out and ensure the doors flung open didn't mean (a) had occurred? Don't like either? Lock/bar the doors to all entry, use the alarm, invest in 4wd / 4-legged friends, etc.

    Is it unconstitutional or criminal for police to be taking community policing to this degree? IMO, no. Is it otherwise wholly inappropriate for police to be taking community policing this far? Depends on the community, I'd say.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    OK.

    This is such a situational question, I don't think a hard and fast rule is possible. Then again, my butt has not been on the line for that sort of decision. I'd like to prolong the enjoyment of being deprived of the experience.

    I wonder if Dad just moved in from a rural area where leaving things like that was not a problem.
    And thats just it, none of use were there, and have the exact same set of circumstance the LEO's did to make their choice. They may have been 100% dead wrong, or given the right mix of factors, could have been 100% dead on right to do what they did. We will never know for sure, because none of us were there.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #53
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    I find it hard to believe that there was anything indicating a crime here. How many places do you know of that the police actually go around checking to see if people lock their front doors? I think these officers were bored to tears and were looking for something to do. I would rather see them riding through the area with the windows down showing a presence. If a homeowner chooses not to lock a door, it is their business.

    ranburr

  9. #54
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    Lets see, was the guy an idiot for leaving his garage door unlocked, door open, yep.

    Should the Leo's have gone into the house and woke the guy up, probably not. Were they justified in looking into the situation, absolutely. Would it have been a good idea to walk into the house and yell about probably not. Somebody yelling in my house in the middle of the night would not be a good thing.

    Having dispatch call and try to get an answer would have been a good thing. Checking to make sure that the kids, don't know how old they were, is a good thing. Did they violate the 4th amendment, no, they weren't doing a search and seizure. They were checking things out to make sure people were safe.

    It is pretty simple, if you do something bone headed, like leave all your stuff unlocked or open in the middle of the night, you need to be told about it. If you walk in and wake someone up in the middle of the night, you need to be called on it. Both parties were to blame, nothing ciminal in either case in my book.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranburr View Post
    I find it hard to believe that there was anything indicating a crime here. How many places do you know of that the police actually go around checking to see if people lock their front doors? I think these officers were bored to tears and were looking for something to do. I would rather see them riding through the area with the windows down showing a presence. If a homeowner chooses not to lock a door, it is their business.

    ranburr
    The officers told Molde his garage door was open, the TV was on, the keys to his truck were left in the ignition and the door to his house was ajar.

    I made the key words stand out a little more. These things added up certainly do point to the possibility of something foul going on at the residence. Again, I have no idea what this town or neighbor hood is like, I doubt any of us do. We can only Monday morning QB this based on the info we do have, so let us at least use all of that info we do have to form our opinions.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    The officers told Molde his garage door was open, the TV was on, the keys to his truck were left in the ignition and the door to his house was ajar.

    I made the key words stand out a little more. These things added up certainly do point to the possibility of something foul going on at the residence. Again, I have no idea what this town or neighbor hood is like, I doubt any of us do. We can only Monday morning QB this based on the info we do have, so let us at least use all of that info we do have to form our opinions.
    Ok, Sixto, I know you normally don't participate in hypotheticals, but we'll see if you'll respond to this one anyway. You forget to lock your door. You're asleep and at 3 a.m. somebody you don't know enters your house to wake you up to let you know. Would you at least say there is a posibility of that going horribly wrong? Or would you just be glad they cared enough to let you know?
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Ok, Sixto, I know you normally don't participate in hypotheticals, but we'll see if you'll respond to this one anyway. You forget to lock your door. You're asleep and at 3 a.m. somebody you don't know enters your house to wake you up to let you know. Would you at least say there is a posibility of that going horribly wrong? Or would you just be glad they cared enough to let you know?
    There is a big difference between an unlocked door, and a door that has been left ajar.
    If the door was simply unlocked, yes, I'd be a little chapped if the situation played out like this one. If my doors were ajar, I'd be grateful.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    If my doors were ajar, I'd be grateful.
    Exactly the distinction I was pointing to. Chapped, perhaps, but grateful none the less.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #59
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    Yeah, I could just imagine trying to sneak down Sixto's hallway...crossbows tripped via pressure switches in the floor, trip lines attached to shotguns, and if you make it down the hallway you got Sixto throwing a bandoleer over his shoulder while preparing Ma Deuce...Yeah, sounds like a great idea.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Yeah, I could just imagine trying to sneak down Sixto's hallway...crossbows tripped via pressure switches in the floor, trip lines attached to shotguns, and if you make it down the hallway you got Sixto throwing a bandoleer over his shoulder while preparing Ma Deuce...Yeah, sounds like a great idea.
    Nah, my house is very ordinary. I try to live my life as quite and un paranoid as possible. The only real danger (provided I'm sleeping) is you will have a 15# terrier latched onto your ankle, or perhaps a tripping hazard or two thanks to hot wheels or some other kids toys that they neglected to put away.
    Last edited by SIXTO; June 23rd, 2008 at 12:49 AM.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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