Homeland security needs?

This is a discussion on Homeland security needs? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I agree that forced labor, weather it be on a soup line or in a fox hole won't work. The question is how do we ...

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Thread: Homeland security needs?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    I agree that forced labor, weather it be on a soup line or in a fox hole won't work. The question is how do we go about getting it through to people what they have here, in the US, how can people be made (educated) to the blessing of this country for all its faults is still the best to be in, period?

    Maybe more televised military drills, non combat. More public service announcements to show how much better we become when we rely on ourselves and each other and not rely on the Govt. for everything?
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Personally, I wouldn't want to serve with anyone who didn't want to be there. There already some undesireables who I would like to see "helped out" of the service. To add a group individuals pressed into service of a country (or military) they already hold contempt for, would be detrimental to national security. [sarcasm] Now, if this service came with an accompanying woodshed to beat them behind (when needed), I might think twice. [/sarcasm] Why? Because poor parenting hasn't taught most of these "adults" what the consequences of their actions brings them.

    No thank you, I'll take volunteers.
    Last edited by SIGguy229; July 11th, 2008 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Added sarcasm notes for people without sense of humor
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    It's a great idea. Let's force everyone to love freedom!
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  5. #19
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    The Russian Method

    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Now, if this service came with an accompanying woodshed to beat them behind (when needed), I might think twice.

    No thank you, I'll take volunteers.

    I think the Russia army used that method. It got them nowhere.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    You mean like pay them what they are worth?

    I'm sorry, and I hate to say it but more over I hate the fact that it is true, but the last time I changed jobs my salary increase was almost as much as recruits make in a year. What is wrong with that picture, I pay more than enough taxes to pay these men and women 2x their salary, and I know I'm not alone.
    Well, it would be nice to get more cash, the pay isn't why people join. I have figured out how much I make an hour assuming a 40 hour workweek (in my dreams), and its not as high as the manual labor jobs I had during college. More pay is nice, but with the benefits of housing,food, medical, dental, gi bill, ect..., the pay we get really is livable, I'm even able to save a higher % of it than my friends in the civilian world.

    As far as mandatory military service, here are my thoughts, and these are just the thoughts of one person. I hate the idea. I don't like to feel like I'm tooting my own horn, but as active duty Marine Corps Infantry, I pretty much am part of the front lines. Every man (combat MOS, sorry ladies) standing next to me on that line took the same oaths I did, and volunteered for that job just like me (the Marines often have to turn infantry applicants to other jobs, because all the slots fill early for the grunts, its what we want to do). We all gripe when on a crappy working party, or when life just sucks, but in the end we still want to be there, we are still proud to be there. The shared suffering even in garrison brings you closer together, and you will do anything to help out the Marine next to you, knowing that he would do the same. If someone doesn't want to stand on the line next to me, I don't want them there, and I'd be better off without them there.

    If you want some sort of civil service mandatory thats fine, but not the military, not when actively engaged in a war that could take generations. You need the people on that wall who willingly go on that wall.

    Sorry about the rant, just how I feel about that issue.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    I agree that forced labor, weather it be on a soup line or in a fox hole won't work. The question is how do we go about getting it through to people what they have here, in the US, how can people be made (educated) to the blessing of this country for all its faults is still the best to be in, period?

    Maybe more televised military drills, non combat. More public service announcements to show how much better we become when we rely on ourselves and each other and not rely on the Govt. for everything?
    Ever heard of the concept of leading a horse to water? You can point it out every time you pass by the same stream day after day, but you can't always convince them them to drink.

    Public service announcements won't do any good either. Propoganda never does anyone any good in the long run. If they can't figure it out with the facts staring them in the face daily, they won't figure it out from a 30 second TV spot.
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    I guess I'll just have to ignore the World and start at home. I try to teach my kids that service to country is honorable; that is why their Grandfathers did it (either as Army or LEO) and my Dad did it (NC Guard and firefighter) and others in our family have done it all the way down to me.

    I have and will teach them the benefits and the rewards to service (college, great resume builder, and to pay back those who served before them, as well as honor and duty).

    I can then pray that my kids, when they are grown up, will follow the lead of those before them and become active participants in their country's future.

    I never said to force people, I only said it might work to compel people and provide more incentives to serve in any way.

    I also think that anyone who will put their life on the line for the betterment and protection of fellow Americans deserves more; more money, more appreciation, more beef jerky, etc.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  9. #23
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    Mixing two trains of thought here, from previous posts, if we paid our military more, more people would probably enlist voluntarily. In my opinion, that's exactly what we should do.

    I don't, however, have a problem with the draft, either. I think every American citizen has an obligation to this country and they should pay it in service in some way.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    I do not have a problem with a draft--as long as there are mechanisms to get rid of the worst of the dirtbags. I mean the serious criminal element, not the crying mama's boy.

    I agree in the sentiment that all Americans should have a moral obligation to serve, but I wouldn't make it compulsory. I would, however, like to see it compulsory to run for public office. You need to follow before you can lead.
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  11. #25
    Member Array doobie's Avatar
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    Everyone should be required to have training to use a firearm. No military service required, just a 6 week boot camp.
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  12. #26
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowpointHank View Post
    I have noticed that Israel has mandatory military service for all it's citizens. What do you think of that?
    Folks wouldn't be as free, with that forced service.

    The nation as a whole would be, with it.

    That's a pickle.

    But then, most folks wouldn't end up so all-fired stupid about personal responsibility, taking care of their own self defense, respect for authority and a few other things. Sending 100% of people through a common training regimen, as well, would have untold benefits. It would certainly turn around the anti-gun posture most folks have through never being weaned off mother's milk and pie-in-the-sky.

    There's military, intelligence/spying, and personal responsibility/security. The big goose egg in the middle (that is, homeland security) isn't required, IMO, so long as we can add in that last bit. If directed military service for 2-3yrs was required of ALL citizens, I might be for it, given the hope for an increase in that all-important characteristic.
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumper View Post
    Mixing two trains of thought here, from previous posts, if we paid our military more, more people would probably enlist voluntarily. In my opinion, that's exactly what we should do.
    Agreed. I also think that they should be paid tax free. That would be a MAJOR incentive to join.

  14. #28
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    Military Pay

    Quote Originally Posted by bluelineman View Post
    Agreed. I also think that they should be paid tax free. That would be a MAJOR incentive to join.
    It is obvious and goes without saying, that military pay must be adequate.

    I am not familiar with present compensation levels, but I have a brother in-law who served as an enlisted man in the Navy for 25 years.

    Most of the time, he was able to have a reasonable standard of living.
    His children were not deprived of any material things, and today his standard of living as a retired military man who went back to work in the private sector approximates mine, which is modestly solid.

    Overlooked in the compensation discussion are health benefits for family that surpass the private sector, and discounted food, clothing, and appliances at government run stores. And housing provided or housing allowances.

    I'm not saying it is easy. I am not saying it is adequate. It isn't. And it especially isn't for the folks who are most likely to be in combat roles.

    I think the bigger issue for a Navy man than compensation is lengthy sea duty and the stress that places on family.

    I had to have my sister in-law and kids live in my house when my brother in-law was deployed, just to be certain that they were properly taken care of.

    In short, what the Navy should have taken care of, I had to look after.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    make some form of federal service a requirment to vote or hold public office. it'd also serve the purpose of removeing the morons unqualified to run this country as leadership training is key to the military.
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  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat35 View Post
    make some form of federal service a requirment to vote or hold public office. it'd also serve the purpose of removeing the morons unqualified to run this country as leadership training is key to the military.
    1) Lincoln never served...

    2) The military actually gets paid pretty well...I think one needs to do a bit more research on the starting pay and benefits (medical, dental, food, housing, educational/GI bill). Include yearly COLA and retirement etc, that many companies do not provide. After looking at starting...look at the 5 year point as well. Starting pay in real numbers (and education) is actually greater than school teachers and LEOs in a number of states. The perception that the military does not get paid very well actually existed a number of years back (the Clinton food stamp era) and has stuck. Regardless, most serve not for pay, but for the service, commitment, and honor.

    3) As for the draft...there is no shortage of applicants for the AF, Navy, and Marines...the Army is struggling with lowering the standard education and entrance test scores. Hence, a quasi draft already exists...it is called the Reserves and National Guard...some, on their third tour.

    Rick

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