LEO's Over The Line In Irving, TX?
This is a discussion on LEO's Over The Line In Irving, TX? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Women warn of 'nightmare' traffic stops in Irving | WFAA.com | Local News: TV
IRVING - Those driving down the road without an insurance card ...
July 15th, 2008 08:32 PM
LEO's Over The Line In Irving, TX?
Women warn of 'nightmare' traffic stops in Irving | WFAA.com | Local News: TV
Seems a pretty petty thing to arrest someone for. It doesn't sound like either of the women resisted, but then we are only hearing one side of the story.
IRVING - Those driving down the road without an insurance card of driver's license with a correct address may find themselves in jail if they get pulled over by Irving police.
In fact, it happened to two women who were pulled over by the same two Irving cops last weekend. Both women said their traffic stops turned into a nightmare.
Mikki Stokes, of Irving, said she was headed to the store for some sour cream when she was stopped by two Irving police officers.
She was initially stopped for not making a complete stop when exiting the parking lot. Stokes second offense was that her current address was not on her Texas driver's license. However, she said she never dreamed that those two minor offenses would result in her being cuffed and stuffed into the backend of a squad car.
"And I was like, 'Is this something that someone with no criminal record would get arrested for, that's never been in trouble for anything [and] that's not a persistent offender?" she said. "I've never been in trouble before. Why are you arresting me for this? And they were like, 'We can arrest you for anything.'"
Two hours later it was Leanna Onstott, of Fort Worth, who became the next target of the same two officers.
"And he said, 'You are under arrest,'" she said of when she was pulled over without have proper proof of insurance in her car. "And he turned me around and put handcuffs on me and I was just like, 'Is this really happening? I mean, can they do this?'"
Onstott was originally pulled over for creeping her car past the pedestrian crossing line.
Neither woman had outstanding warrants or had ever been to jail. Yet, Stokes said she spent two hours behind bars. Onstott said she spent five hours in jail before posting a $600 bond. However, none of that was what Onstott said was the worst part of her arrest.
"They asked me to take off my clothes," she said.
Onstott was then forced to put on jail clothes.
Both women have filed internal affairs complaints against the two Irving officers Daniels and McPherson. While Irving police officials said their concerns are being taken seriously and will be thoroughly investigated, they also said the officers were within their rights to make the arrests.
"The discretion that was used, the decision to make the arrests, it's well within their authority to do that," said David Tull, with the Irving Police Department. ".... I don't know that you could say it's common, but it's not unheard of."
Regardless of how the investigation turns out, both women said their faith in Irving police has been shattered.
"I think if someone can't get them to stop abusing power and pulling people over and doing stuff like this because they think they have the right to, then they don't need to be in that job," Stokes said.
Onstott warned motorists that as long as officers can arrest whoever they want for what they want, Irving is not a desirable place to drive.
"I just want to know why they didn't give me a ticket," she said. "The public needs to know that it's happening and it could happen to them if it happened to me."
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July 15th, 2008 08:32 PM
July 15th, 2008 08:43 PM
I can see tickets...but arrest? It does end up with "Regardless of how the investigation turns out, both women said their faith in Irving police has been shattered."
July 15th, 2008 08:44 PM
Yeah, I am sure that this is the WHOLE story...
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July 15th, 2008 09:56 PM
How can you ticket someone whose identity you cannot confirm? I always though no proper license was a misdemeanor, but thought no insurance was only a civil infraction. It would suck if it happened to me, but I'm not terribly upset about the no license deal. The no proof of insurance? I think a ticket should be sufficient. Especially because if you can't afford $100/month for insurance, it really hurts to get a $250 fine.
Then there is that missing other side of the story: Fair chance that these chicks were being real (expletives).
July 15th, 2008 10:12 PM
Or not. Every now and again there are well publicized stories of one official or another using abysmal judgment--that is, acting dumb as dirt and like a turd too.
Originally Posted by Cupcake
Bet when they look into this they find there is a law somewhere that prohibits arrests for such minor infractions when nothing else is going on too.
There are ways to id someone besides a DL. People today carry multiple forms of ID; everything from a SAM's card to credit card.
If the name matches the plates, there is no need for an arrest.
At least it didn't escalate into other "trumped up charges" of resisting.
Or, the favorite around here, they found half a pill of a controlled substance and it wasn't in a bottle with the original prescription.
Be careful out there you Texans. Make sure you don't have your license plate holder with Aggie logo on your plates. With "cops" like this you could find yourself in the clink--- and in Austin yet. And wearing an orange jump suit. With a picture of Bevo.
(Some of that will be lost on non-Texans; it is ....never mind, you either get it or you don't.)
July 15th, 2008 10:20 PM
There are definitely ways to ID people and usually advising them to upgrade their address on their license and carrying an insurance card /with issuing citations for the offenses is what officers normally do,then you have some Police Officers that do abuse the authority they are entrusted with,and they get backed up by their superiors.
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July 15th, 2008 10:22 PM
Hard to have the twin goals of (a) avoiding a "Papers Please!" society and (b) identifying and removing undocumented folks who are not supposed to be here.
It seems to me that actually avoiding being undocumented was within the control of these folks. Given the region, and given the scrutiny of undocumented folks, these folks (who were picked up) weren't thinking too clearly about things.
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July 15th, 2008 10:37 PM
It is interesting how some take for granted the grace provided by law enforcement to give you a ticket rather than hauling you into jail. It is an arrest either way.
A few decades ago I was caught for speeding in Texas and I was forced to follow the officer into his little small town and come before the judge. I, too, asked him to give me a ticket. But I didn't whine and complain either. I was found guilty and paid the fine.
Some think that if they break 'small laws' that they should not be inconvenienced in the slightest.
Should the cops have reacted like that? I don't know. If you break the law then you have to deal with the conseuences. Hopefully, in a mature, adult manner.
July 16th, 2008 12:51 AM
In a society that routinely gives 'celebrity' convicts time to report to jail at their own leisure for much more serious offenses?
Originally Posted by SelfDefense
Damned straight I do.
Cops have got better things to do with their time than to haul somebody in for minor infractions, and the typical citizen making a small mistake deserves a lot more respect than this situation suggests. And lastly, most minor vehicle infractions exists as money-making schemes for the city or state. The fine is more than enough 'punishment'.
(All this assuming the story is accurate as reported and the arrested women were not, in fact, being particularly abusive to the officers.)
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July 16th, 2008 01:20 AM
REMINDER: LEO bashing is not allowed on the forum.
While these LEOs may be over the line, perhaps there is more to the story (either good or bad).
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July 16th, 2008 05:53 PM
July 16th, 2008 05:59 PM
Wow!! I guess the ladies should make sure that they follow any/all laws to the letter, does seem like a case of over reaction considering the offenses, however there may be more to the story.
July 16th, 2008 06:05 PM
Geeze! Just like a woman driver...
July 16th, 2008 08:12 PM
They have been advertising this a lot lately here in N. TX, so anyone who has a radio, TV, or newspaper should not be too surprised. They, Irving PD, are impounding cars with no insurance.
Some have called foul as it appears to some as an attempt to round up illegals, which the Irving Police have been gotten on to about, I mean how dare they ask for someone's ID and try to find out what laws they are breaking , which IMHO doesn't fall under illegal search and seizure, as long as there was a valid reason for the stop.
Other than the occasional numbskull shooting himself while scratching his back with his revolver, we don't screw around in TX.
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July 16th, 2008 08:18 PM
The not having proof of insurance I understand. She should have been arrested, and I'm glad she was.
For somebody to get arrested for their D.L. address not matching their residence I find idiotic. My D.L. did not match my residence for all of 6 years(the entire time I was in the service). And some people do not have permanent residences(like an RV owner). If that is actually a law, it's ridiculous.
As far as the lack of insurance, I do believe that should result in the car being impounded and the driver arrested.
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