Morons abound

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Morons abound

    Why is it that our "higher" institutes of "learning" almost always seem to have the lowest IQ's?

    Princeton can keep its cops unarmed, OSHA says - CNN.com

    Princeton can keep its cops unarmed, OSHA says

    * Story Highlights
    * OSHA: Policy of not allowing officers to carry guns on campus not a violation
    * Complaint alleged Princeton's policy was an occupational hazard
    * Safety officers currently carry batons, handcuffs
    * OSHA had not made further recommendations to the university
    * Next Article in U.S.

    By Tasnim Shamma

    (UWIRE) -- Princeton University's policy of not allowing its officers to carry guns on campus doesn't hurt the officers' ability to do their jobs, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration ruled.

    OSHA closed the case on June 24 after ruling that Princeton did not violate OSHA regulations.

    OSHA closed the case on June 24 after ruling on June 20 that Princeton had complied with OSHA regulations.

    The complaint, filed by Public Safety Fraternal Orders of Police's president and patrolman James Lanzi, alleged that the policy of not allowing Public Safety officers to carry guns was an occupational hazard.

    Lanzi has been publicly pushing for the institution to arm trained Public Safety officers since early 2008.

    "It's a safety-and-health issue, a matter of our ability to respond to something -- that's the basis for the complaint," Lanzi told the Times of Trenton earlier this week.

    An informal complaint

    The complaint was treated informally because Princeton did not meet the criteria for the on-site inspections conducted for formal complaints, OSHA spokeswoman Leni Uddyback-Fortson said. These criteria include the existence of a likely or imminent danger and previous OSHA citations, according to OSHA's web site.

    "Basically, the complaint itself alleged that the University was not providing its 22 police officers with the necessary tools that would allow them to do their job safely," Uddyback-Fortson said.

    OSHA treated the action as an informal complaint, allowing the school five days to respond in writing whether the allegation was valid or invalid, she said. OSHA found the university did provide the training and the personal protective equipment that was required by OSHA standards.

    Public Safety officers currently carry batons, handcuffs and a substance similar to pepper spray. They also wear bulletproof vests.

    A June 19 letter submitted to OSHA by Princeton noted that "two state courts have considered this identical issue, and both have dismissed the complaints" on the grounds that OSHA has no specific standards for equipping employees with firearms as "personal protective equipment."

    Princeton's letter was referring to similar complaints filed against the University of Wisconsin and the University of Northern Iowa, both of which were ultimately dismissed by state courts.

    Princeton went on to cite a Department of Justice survey stating that, as of 2004-05, only 30 percent of private colleges and universities nationwide with sworn police officers had armed public safety officers.

    "For some colleges and universities, the right policy is to arm their public safety officers, but we believe that would not be the right policy for Princeton, at least for now," Princeton spokeswoman Cass Cliatt said.

    Princeton officials have said if an armed on-campus response is necessary the Princeton Borough and Princeton Township police departments will be able to adequately handle the situation.

    "When there is a need for an armed officer in a situation that is potentially violent, we work with the Borough or Township to have them respond; that is one of our unique characteristics with our location between two municipalities," Cliatt said.

    ....RIGHT says I. And they're going to get there so much faster too
    Cliatt said the Princeton believes it is fully compliant with all OSHA regulations and that arming Public Safety officers could harm the relationship between students and officers.

    In a March 3 column, however, Lanzi said that Public Safety officers would not be able to adequately respond to an "active shooter situation" on campus, such as the recent tragedies at Northern Illinois University and Virginia Tech.

    "Princeton's security plan eliminates an extremely valuable resource by not properly equipping Princeton University police officers with the necessary tools to protect themselves and the community," he wrote.

    Uddyback-Fortson says the union is not prohibited from filing another complaint.

    "There's nothing that says that they can't file again," she said.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Solution for Princeton University Police Officers: Leave! Go somewhere where your administration gives some thought to your safety. Well, I don't guess there is much chance of convincing Princeton of the wisdom of letting students and staff carry now, is there? Not to worry! No danger! Nobody on campus has guns! All is safe and well and Princeton.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    While I would like to see campuses arm their security and police forces I don't think OSHA was the right way to go and I for one, am glad that the ruling came down as it did.

    Can you imagine Firearms as PPE? Now OSHA determines whether or not firearms are required or even allowed on a job site?

    No thanks!
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    Can you imagine Firearms as PPE? Now OSHA determines whether or not firearms are required or even allowed on a job site?

    No thanks!
    Excellent point. I never thought of that. Probably not the best route to go.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    I wasn't making too much of a fuss over osha as much as the fact that the University "Leaders" don't feel that their LEO's that they rely on for their "safety" don't need any tools besides a baton and pepper spray to fulfill that role....or that if they really have a SHTF situation that the local police departments (that aren't already on the scene unlike their CAMPUS police) can get there and resolve any issues within the time required (ie before you're dead).
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    One of my "belief's to live" by is, "People are morons, until proven otherwise." Some people prove otherwise very quickly while others never do.
    Bend the knees, smooth is fast, watch the front sight.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    I just can't wrap my head around this line of thinking. Have we not had enough evidence that these areas, while they may be gun free they are far from crime free zones?

    Do we need to list the examples out to them, all the way back to the University of Texas clock tower sniper?!?

    Oh, wait. I apologize, I let facts and reason slip in there. Sorry, I'll not post on this again until I can only use emotion and double talk like the 2A detractors use.

    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

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    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    Obviously the people from OSHA have never been shot at.

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    Member Array Arisin Wind's Avatar
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    A policeman without a gun is like a carpenter without a hammer.
    Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help. psalm22:11

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arisin Wind View Post
    A policeman without a gun is like a carpenter without a hammer.
    Or like a...British Policeman.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    The "higher" in "Higher Learning" has generally meant "least common denominator" for decades, now. There are islands, but this thinking is a good example of the sort.

    OSHA has ruled that being unarmed does not harm the capacity of security guards to do their jobs? As if they would know.

    Where there is a need to be armed ... they're going to be ineffectual, every time, guaranteed. Sounds like a plan to fail, to me.

    How do you say "stupdity" in Princeton-ese?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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