Police Shootout Results - **GRAPHIC PICS WARNING**

This is a discussion on Police Shootout Results - **GRAPHIC PICS WARNING** within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I do not believe that a 40 gold dot only penetrated 1" after going through a down vest and a neck shot with only 1" ...

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Thread: Police Shootout Results - **GRAPHIC PICS WARNING**

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I do not believe that a 40 gold dot only penetrated 1" after going through a down vest and a neck shot with only 1" penetration I smell BS
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Frankly this is a great pictorial of how every situation is differn't and you cannot predict what you will run into. Caliber is not relative in a gun fight, will to survive and accuracy are going to be the determining factors. Lesson's learned from this, Never Give up shoot until your out of ammo standing in a pile of brass and then use the gun as a hammer if there is still a threat. If the threat stops stop shooting.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepnheat View Post
    Someone should look into the 1986? shootout with FBI, in Miami, Fl
    It's been done and the assessment detail per the FBI posted.
    Run a search.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Both images in the header page of the document appear suspect to me.
    The second images with the DSU logo is very suspect as the 'D' is messed up and the man standing a tommy gun with "FBI" emblazoned on his arm is just plain cheesy, even for govt. work.

    But I did find one hard documented reference to this division and it was via a DOJ 'OIG' audit report dated 7-18-07.

    The Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Control Over Weapons and Laptop Computers Follow-Up Audit

    Audit Report 07-18
    February 2007
    Office of the Inspector General
    OIG Audit Report 07-18

    The outfit in specific does exist by name.
    But that does not verify the authenticity of this document, it's story and 'facts' as presented, nor the to me suspect looking logos as depicted.
    What one could do is reference the PA state police to cross check the facts by time and date of this occurrence with their own records toward such an officer involvememnt. The stated 30+ officers involved would make for an event that would not be an every day forgettable item.

    This tale and facts therein may be true, or it may not be.
    The internet it is a place with a lot of shade.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  6. #20
    Member Array AgentX's Avatar
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    To look at this report [if it's not a fabrication] and say "wow, what ammo would have stopped the fight" is to miss the point completely.

    If you're going to fight, you need to worry far more about your own abilities, mentality, and the absolute reliability of your equipment than you need to worry about gelatin tests, ballistic mumbo-jumbo, and the miniscule differences between 9mm+ handgun calibers.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    I would say the xrays were monkeyed with a bit. You don't just have "Morgue." There would be a case#, county or State (or Fed)office reference, etc.. I would say real pics, xrays, but hinky story.

    One important lesson: when involved in a gunfight, do not duck and turn, unless you want to be shot in the backside... 7. That had to smart.
    Last edited by Scott; August 15th, 2008 at 08:56 PM. Reason: profanity workaround

  8. #22
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    I think we should concentrate on basics. The suspect was wearing a down jacket that will do nothing to slow down a bullet but it may plug the bullet cavity. If there is no expansion, correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't the bullet behave like a regular round nose? If so we would have over penetration, not under.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    I think we should concentrate on basics. The suspect was wearing a down jacket that will do nothing to slow down a bullet but it may plug the bullet cavity. If there is no expansion, correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't the bullet behave like a regular round nose? If so we would have over penetration, not under.
    Unless the coat was thick or dense enough to slow the bullet down that much, or perhaps it was a bad batch of ammo... who knows.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I seen geese shot in the chest and the shot roll up in the feathers and strip it away but no penetration,
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  11. #25
    Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    So nobody has heard of this horrendous shootout? I found it odd that the report was so lacking in the specific information such that it could be researched.

    I can't find a shootout involving 1 officer being shot and two more injured, and the suspect being killed, certainly not on the date stated.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Here you go, I think this is the incident they are talking about

    Import | citizenvoice.com | The Citizens Voice | Police chief says Deeb wanted to kill cops
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  13. #27
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    I wonder if the pelvic shot was on purpose or by accident. And why do they claim that only SWAT officers get 55gr TAP, and the rest had 75GR? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to use the same ammo?

    .223 doesn't meet the FBI's requirements? Maybe someone should tell NATO that.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  14. #28
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    WOW! All I got to say is...................I'm speechless! Unbelievable! Holy scamolli! Jimminy crickets Batman! Just a little hint of weed in his system? 107 shots fired? Not good percentages on any of it are there? WOW!

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    There was extensive discussion of this topic on another website. Someone who supposedly "knew what actually happened" said the BG was effectiely using cover and clear shots were not possible for most of the shootout. They also said that the shots that only penetrated and inch and did not expand might have been through and through grazing shots to the arm and IIRC to the neck. ie, they only hit just under the surface of the skin and exited quickly without expansion. Of course that is all just hearsay. The one in the neck is not exapnded and is not a through and through for sure.

    You never know what to believe on the internet. Maybe the whole thing is fake?
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I do not believe that a 40 gold dot only penetrated 1" after going through a down vest and a neck shot with only 1" penetration I smell BS
    +1 something smells about the whole story.
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

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