It appears to be excessive force; However, something happened off camera that probably warrants more force.
Not enough info to make an informed opinion.
In the second viedo there appears to be a weapon and officers were on track.
I agree a gun cam would only show what happened after you unholstered,and only what it's pointing at not a 360 or even 180 view of the situation as it unfolds
Sixto is trying to make a point and waiting for the first guy to rant off about it being excessive force and what a good thing it was that there was a camera there to catch it... I'm waiting....
After viewing both videos it looks like a clear case of suicide by cop.
I agree with your point, but I feel the advantage of the dash cam outweighs the disadvantage. Surely incidents such as this are of a minute percentage compared to cases where the dashcam aided in the conviction of a crime.
...with that said, this was definately an eye opener. Thanks for sharing. :bier:
Exactly why I don't carry a cell phone; those things can get you shot in the back.
Two lessons I learned from this.
1. Don't wear pants that are so big that you can't run if needed.
2. Don't try to walk away, while holding up your pants and pointing things, when cops are chasing you.
I still think Rev. Al and Jessie could have a field day with this one if they needed some face time on the nightly news, which is all they are really interested in anyway.
Saw that a few years ago. Guy made a gesture like he had a gun. Had something in his hand that could have been a gun. Officers fired to protect themselves.
I saw an analysis of this video on a tv show some time ago. They had still frames like pointed out in the thread. As soon as I saw the first frame, I knew exactly what happened.
My take aways on the video:
(1) dash cams do not catch all the action, only a view from one perspective. That is like 2D in a 3D world.
(2) police work is dangerous and difficult.
(3) i am reinforced in my decision to go into computers. twiddling bits is sooo much easier than what police do.
Now, onto a potentially incendiary comment about how dash cams can be used for bad. I have some family that is leo and some that are prior leo. A very close family member (prior leo) related to me one of the things they were taught during police basic/cadet training. They were told that, with the dashcam, if someone got "cute" or otherwise committed some act of "contempt of cop" that they could get the person close enough to the hood of the cruiser while talking to them. With this, the dashcam could not record their lower legs (hood in the way). They were instructed that they could then step on the foot of the "cute person" and get close to them. Then the "cute person" would almost always instinctively put their hands up (defensive reaction or to catch their balance because they were put off balance). That way, the video of the raised arms are a sign of aggression and can be used in court for some type of assault conviction. And no video evidence was available of the police stepping on the foot of the "cute" person.
This whole incident relayed to me ties into:
(1) dash cams do not catch all the action, only a view from one perspective. That is like 2D in a 3D world.
Believe none of what you hear and only 1/2 of what you see.
This whole incident relayed to me ties into:
(1) dash cams do not catch all the action, only a view from one perspective. That is like 2D in a 3D world.
Believe none of what you hear and only 1/2 of what you see.
That sums my point up very well. I think the dash cams will make the public even lazier and perhaps investigations into these incidents lazy as well, relying on on point of view when you need at least three to make an accurate determination about what happened.
I'm saving this for the guy I work with that always wants to see cops hanging in the streets because of a quick video clip or even a witness account.(usually friend/family of the downed scumbag/victim).
Just shows how difficult job cops have.Split second decisions with no instant replay if they get it wrong. A populace that will sue at a drop of a hat if you make a mistake.We are lucky to find individuals who are willing to take on such a thankless job.
I remember when that happened, actually I don't live too far away from Shreveport. IIRC there was quite a bit of "public unrest" initially for shooting a man carrying a cell phone.
I think some of the complainers got to look at the video pretty thoroughly. The FBI may have been involved in the investigation also.
I vote for video. At my department we are mandated to run our video and audio on all public contacts. We carry a backup audio recorder on our person as well which we are required to use on every citizen contact.
I think a majority of the time video can help against bogus citizen complaints and bogus IA investigations into Police officer misconduct. Any tool I can use to minimize the exposure I have to complaints and lawsuits I am all for it. Nowadays everyone wants to sue everyone. I will take my chances with video rolling. I like to play the odds. The odds are video will save me a majority of the time.
I realize there is no perfect system but i will take my chances.
I agree with you on the philosophy of your position, but I contend that a video actually increases your exposure... anytime anything happens, people demand to see the video now. I guess because of the T.V. shows out there, they think video is rolling 24/7.
I'm OK with the dash cams and the like, but only if used for evidence gathering, such as in a DUI/OMVI arrest or something like that.
Unfortunately, they are used more often as a tool for Monday morning quarterbacking by administration or the media. I'm not out there for anyones entertainment.
I think this video illustrates the point of view theory quite clearly. Anyone who only observed the first video would naturally said that the officers had acted hastily and shot an unarmed Black man.
Then when they watched the second, they would have seen the cell phone pointed as if he were pointing a gun. Looking at the video, this action took less than a second; in the heat of action, with adrenaline pumping, in less than a second you get a glimpse of what appears to be a silver gunlike object pointed at you in a shooting gesture? Then the perp turns away, trying to walk off and hide the silver object?
I light 'em up every time. You certainly don't want the perp turning back around.
I agree the cams are bad. You know damn well the stupid media if they got their hands on it would only show the first video! I'm sure edit it down for TV, but you know they wouldn't show anything on the second one. Just the way the media is!
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