Authority of LEO - Page 3

Authority of LEO

This is a discussion on Authority of LEO within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; In general, the roadside's not the place to prove a point. If I were stopped, I'd be polite, and cooperate to a point. That cooperation ...

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Thread: Authority of LEO

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array BruceGibson's Avatar
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    In general, the roadside's not the place to prove a point. If I were stopped, I'd be polite, and cooperate to a point. That cooperation would include "Yes, sir/Yes, Ma'am," or "No Sir/No Ma'am," depending on circumstance. No matter what, I'd be polite. Valid DL, registration and proof of insurance. I won't consent to a vehicle search without a warrant, but I will decline politely. If an unlawful/non-consensual search subsequently proceeds, I'll deal with it in the proper forum. I won't resist in any way on the side of the road. There's nothing in my vehicle that violates any law, but it's a principle issue.

    "Do you mind if I take a look in your vehicle?" "No, you cannot take a look in my vehicle."

    "Why? You got something stashed in there you don't want me to see?" "No, sir/ma'am, you can't search my vehicle."

    "I'll just call and get a dog out here." "Yes, sir/ma'am, I'll wait while you get the dog out here. But, your agency will have to pay for any damages the dog causes." (And, chances are, the dog will tear heck out of your vehicle).

    "All I gotta do is get a warrant and I can search." "Yes, sir/ma'am, I'll wait while you get a warrant to search."

    In short, I don't keep anything "illegal" around, but I won't voluntarily allow the government--city, county, state or federal--to just go rootin' around in my house, vehicle, or person, to verify and confirm that.

    That's not being anti-law enforcement, that's being a good American.

    Besides, bad guys are generally too stupid to do any of the above. They also have great difficulty with the concept of "shut up."


  2. #32
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Besides, bad guys are generally too stupid to do any of the above. They also have great difficulty with the concept of "shut up."
    We call that, "talking yourself in to cuffs."

    Biker

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    M41,
    I hope most LEOs feel like you and they conduct their business like you. I have had almost no "run ins" with the law so I don't know what to expect. Sure I have been pulled over for speeding about eight times in my 32 years of driving and was guilty six times. I was left go about three times after they determined I was not a problem and would slow down. I did not have any conflict with any of the officers, even the ones were I was not speeding I didn't discuss it I just took the ticket and paid it.

    I keep hearing this bad advice to get out of your car and lock it. That somehow if you lock it and are not in it by the time the officer rolls up they can't search it. I have never heard of an officer that would like that behavior. Here in Colorado they always tell you to stay in your vehicle ( I assume for both your safety and theirs).

  4. #34
    Member Array Texian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    I know how they work their roadside stops, one of my ex brother in laws is a deputy for shelby county.
    Now this really sounds like rock solid intel.

    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    nor do I intend to get pulled over since I have not been in over 15 years.
    Really in touch with what's going on out there, huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by m41 View Post
    My suggestion? If you happen to get stopped, be polite. If armed, have the intestinal fortitude to tell the officer you are a permit holder and are armed. Most of us do not care. I have never ever disarmed a person who told me that they were CCW and armed. Never will without a valid reason. Some LEO's will. I don't agree with it but thats just me. Remember-we are looking for criminals. We are not out to hassle the working public. In my years working the road I have found out that 95% of the citizens of this fine country are honest decent people. The other 4% are lying, cheating, worthless drugged out scum. The other 1% will kill you in a blink of an eye. They are the one's most of us are looking for. They are the ones I want.

    Take care all and remember, we are people also. Most LEO's are not anti gun. Most LEO's are pro CCW. If you see one of us getting our butts kicked-help us out. Stay armed,keep practicing, carry safely and help us deal with that 5%.
    Excellent post, welcome to the forum

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceGibson View Post
    I won't consent to a vehicle search without a warrant, "
    You should know that an officer does not need a warrant to search your vehicle. What he/she does need is probable cause. If the officer had it at the beginning of the contact, they would not be asking, they would be searching. Depending on what you say and what you do, you may provide that PC for them before the stop is over.
    "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." G.K. Chesterton

  5. #35
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    Except when given permission :--

    Quote Originally Posted by Texian View Post

    You should know that an officer does not need a warrant to search your vehicle. What he/she does need is probable cause.
    Except when given permission. It has become a fad around here that people are asked for permission, and they stupidly consent, and then low and behold half a prescription pill without the original bottle turns up--an arrest is made. The stop usually starts with nothing more than a tail-light out, or failure to stop exactly at the white line, and a driver who is black or hispanic.

    I don't know what happens to these things when they get to a court room. I have no idea if "everybody" is driving around with old pills on the floor of their car" or if they are magically falling out of the sleeves of the arresting officer.

    It isn't unusual for some of these incidents to turn up weed or more, but the first error the driver made is consenting to the search when the stop was for a tail light out.

    These incidents have become so frequent, reported daily in our local rag almost daily, that I am now very very very suspicious of the behavior of some of our local street cops; and also of the rectitude of some of our judges.

    OTOH, we do have an accelerating deterioration of some of our neighborhoods, increased teen "gang" activity, and some minimum amount of street crime. All, mostly unheard of just a few short years ago.

    In my opinion, the laws need to be re-written so that ordinary traffic stops can not by themselves ever be an excuse for doing a search. Only if the driver doesn't check out right, missing license and papers, stolen vehicle, wrong plates, or there is other behavior--e.g. drunk, incoherent, should a search ever be permissible, and asking consent should not be a choice the officers have. Instead, have probable cause, reasonable suspicion, whatever, and call for a warrant.

  6. #36
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    Hopyard, there is a reason why officers will ask to search, they dont just ask out of boredom. Over the years, I've become pretty darn good at picking out the cars carrying drugs, as do most officers that are interested in such things.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #37
    Member Array Bando's Avatar
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    I'm confused. Maybe because I'm an innocent looking middle class guy. I've never had a cop give me a hard time when I wasn't doing something wrong. Some of these posts make it seem like local LEO's are looking for any excuse to screw up someone's day. Quite to the contrary, since carrying the local PO seems to be more polite and less inquisitive. Maybe because I'm not doing anything wrong? Maybe because it's Texas?
    The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    Its a fun catch-22 isn't it?

    While I believe most LEOs are decent people, let's say that the LEO's request is unlawful. You resist. Even though its his fault in the first place, you'll still probably be charged with resisting. So, in this situation, you have your choice:

    1. Comply and have your civil rights violated in a (relatively) minor way.
    2. Resist and have your civil rights violated in a major way.

    I'm not sure that's what the framers wanted.

    Mel
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Hopyard, there is a reason why officers will ask to search, they dont just ask out of boredom. Over the years, I've become pretty darn good at picking out the cars carrying drugs, as do most officers that are interested in such things.
    I think we had this discussion about fishing at least a year ago.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Hopyard, there is a reason why officers will ask to search, they dont just ask out of boredom. Over the years, I've become pretty darn good at picking out the cars carrying drugs, as do most officers that are interested in such things.
    I've had this discussion with our small town cop. His opinion is that the only reason the person would refuse his request is that they are hiding somthing.
    I allways tell him that in my opinion the only reason a person would concent to his request to search would be if they are on drugs.
    I also asked him what good could there possibly be in it for me to allow the search?
    If we dont use our rights we will lose them. Its that simple.

    Michael

  11. #41
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    I think we had this discussion about fishing at least a year ago.
    Yes we did and I even posted a couple of real life events that illustrated why it is not a good idea to give voluntary consent.

    I also asked him what good could there postsibly be in it for me to allow the search?
    There is no good reason to allow a search by voluntarily consenting.

    If we dont use our rights we will lose them. Its that simple.
    How about, "If you dont know your rights, you may as well have none".

    Fact of the matter is...most people are too dumbed down to know and understand that they can so "no"to a search.

    If you have been arrested though, the right to say no is over. You will get searched and it will be a legal search.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  12. #42
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    So, is saying "no" to a search grounds for arrest?

    Mel
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentmel View Post
    Its a fun catch-22 isn't it?

    While I believe most LEOs are decent people, let's say that the LEO's request is unlawful. You resist. Even though its his fault in the first place, you'll still probably be charged with resisting. So, in this situation, you have your choice:

    1. Comply and have your civil rights violated in a (relatively) minor way.
    2. Resist and have your civil rights violated in a major way.

    I'm not sure that's what the framers wanted.

    Mel
    Its not a catch 22 at all. Street side is not the time or place to discuss or debate. If there is a resisting charge, that means there was PC for the arrest in the first place. Resisting arrest is a whole different topic.

    Your civil rights are not violated in anyway in the given scenarios. You have the right to say yes or no to the consent search, and you do not have the right to resist arrest. Its rather simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentmel View Post
    So, is saying "no" to a search grounds for arrest?

    Mel
    No. But if there is articulable reasonable suspicion enough for a search, the car could be held in order to secure a proper search warrant.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentmel View Post
    So, is saying "no" to a search grounds for arrest?

    Mel
    That is one of the things that my local cop says makes him suspious.

    Michael

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    If only all cops were as reasonable as sixto.

    brown nose mode off

    Michael

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