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Bringing Weapons on a Military Installation

9K views 29 replies 15 participants last post by  nn 
#1 ·
I'm not sure if this is the exact location for this topic but it is as close as I could find.

I have made an inquiry to counsel but wanted to get an opinion, hopefully not conjecture and speculation based, from the forum members.

As you know getting the military or any government agency to do something is like pulling teeth. There are several of us here at work whom are avid shooters and have various experiences with military installations with regard to the transport of personal weapons/firearms on a base. We have inquired of the local base authorities and have received multiple “understandings” of what the rules are. The answers are not consistent to say the least. There are two variants to the question; first there is a shotgun range on base that we desire to shoot skeet at and the second variant is the desire to convey the weapons in the trunk of the auto to go to a commercial range off base. Both of these would involve transporting the weapon(s) from our residence off base to the parking lot on base then to either the on or off base range after work. We have received a myriad of replies which are incongruous. Finally, we received a reference to Title 18 USC 930. I’m not sure of the currency of the statute on the Cornell website but after reviewing it, it appears that there may be some wiggle room in subsection (d)(3) and the escape clause in subsection(h). In your opinion does the language “or other lawful purposes” in this subsection make allowance for what I have described?



Title 18 USC 930 Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
(a)Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
 
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#2 ·
Every base at which I was ever stationed had recreational shooting ranges. Rifle/pistol, skeet/trap, heck archery..... I've prob seen thousands of recreational shooters carrying their weapons to and from those ranges in their POV's. I can't imagine how anyone could interpret doing so as forbidden.

Regardless though, your base regs should address the subject. I imagine that there is likely a requirement for the weapons to be unloaded and cased during transport, but I'd bet a paycheck that there's no problem with doing so.
 
#4 ·
Every base at which I was ever stationed had recreational shooting ranges. Rifle/pistol, skeet/trap, heck archery..... I've prob seen thousands of recreational shooters carrying their weapons to and from those ranges in their POV's. I can't imagine how anyone could interpret doing so as forbidden.

Regardless though, your base regs should address the subject. I imagine that there is likely a requirement for the weapons to be unloaded and cased during transport, but I'd bet a paycheck that there's no problem with doing so.
Yes, the base regs should address it. We have requested the reg and have been pointed to a base instruction, the link is dead. We are trying to get a hard copy.

Keep it locked in your trunk, unloaded, with ammo separate.

This was what I did when I was stationed in Louisiana and went shooting on base at the skeet/trap range.

For "official word"--talk to the base security forces/provost marshal. As long as you don't take the guns into your building for safekeeping, you are ok.
May I infer from the language that both of you use that you were/are military not Air Force :danceban: ? Yep, locking it in your trunk is the prescribed federal method for interstate transport. We have asked the SPs, who told us to speak with the armor, who said the trunk deal. Went by the cop shop to get the reg to have in case the wet behind the ears SP did the gate inspection and chose to err on the side of caution. Desk Sgt said you could transport but must go directly to the range and off the base. Do not pass go, do not stop at work etc... Ask for the reg...no answer. Went back to the SPs, spoke with a Sr. Chief. Got the feeling they wanted to arrest us just for talking about it. Got the Title 18 reference but still no reg. The reg they cited does not contain the paragraph they cited. ...

I am not sure a paycheck would pay the fees to prevail (which, I believe you would) in court.

Gen Norman Schwarkopz would be dissapointed that the skeet range he had put in could not be used.
 
#3 ·
Keep it locked in your trunk, unloaded, with ammo separate.

This was what I did when I was stationed in Louisiana and went shooting on base at the skeet/trap range.

For "official word"--talk to the base security forces/provost marshal. As long as you don't take the guns into your building for safekeeping, you are ok.
 
#6 ·
Both bases I've been to (Elmendorf and Nellis AFB). The SPs told me that it has to be in your trunk, locked up and unloaded. You have to go directly to the range without making any stops anywhere.
 
#7 ·
I'm retired AF and when I go to Mountain Home AFB or Hill AFB with my CCW, all I am asked to do, is unload it and put it in my trunk and keep it there while on base.
 
#8 ·
We lived on a military base in the Aleutian Islands for 7 years...kept my weapons at home, had a skeet range, a regular shooting range, and I could take my weapons hunting out in the tundra (still military base land) any time I felt like...never had to register any weapons.

Stay armed...know the rules...stay safe!
 
#9 ·
Try going to the base admin office. They are required to keep a master library of every AF reg used on the base and a copy of every base reg. While they are not the security experts they handle the regs everyday and could probably point you to the regs that cover that topic. You would have to do your own searching through the reg though.
 
#12 ·
Not any more...most of these "regs"--now called "instructions"--are posted online on the base's intranet. The CBPO is no more
 
#14 ·
I spent most of my adult life on military bases (30 years active duty in USMC) but each base had unique rules. If there was a gun club on base, they were tolerant about private weapons going and coming from range. Others absolutely prohibited them. I am currently a serving officer of the Tennessee State Guard, part of the Military Department of the State of Tennessee and a recognized military service. I cannot carry a firearm of any kind onto a military base in Tennessee!This rule is for anybody, including active duty Army and National Guard , unless they are carrying an issued arm in the line of duty. HCP doesn't cut it, no firearms, even for off duty police officers coming on post to stand military duty. a lot of this has come about since 911. I don't know about other states and can't comment on them. When I report to my command on drill weekends, I am gun free, don't even have it in the lock box in the trunk.
 
#15 ·
Here on Tyndall (and on Grand Forks while I was there) the rules were/are:

1. Transport your weapons unloaded.
2. If you live on base, and are going to an off-base shooting range, once your weapons are loaded in your POV you are to drive straight off base. Coming home, once you pass the guard shack, you are to drive straight to your residence. No stopping anywhere.
3. If going to on base range, go straight to range, do not stop anywhere. Same when heading home.
4. CCW does not exist on a military installation.

Basically, you can transport your weapons but you must be driving straight to your residence or straight off base. No stopping at the shoppette to get drinks.

I go to work unarmed. I cannot even leave it in my POV. If I plan on going shooting after work, I must drive home to pick up the pistol before going to the range (no exeptions). If I plan on hitting the skeet range on base, I have to drive home to pick up the shotgun after I get off work and then go back to the skeet range on Tyndall.

And remember, technically if you live in base housing and have firearms they must be registered with the base armory.

Have any questions just ask. I work on Tyndall and I am not about to 1. get arrested 2. Loose my job over not knowing a rule.
 
#17 ·
rolyat63,

I don't know what military installation it is that you're speaking of, to be specific. If it is McDill AFB you're speaking of, I have carried to Tampa before and it was after 9/11. I had reservations on the base and was told by the front gate to go directly to security/police and carry my pistol unloaded and encased inside to armory for safekeeping. It was painless and quick, handled very well by the SP/security. I was told to pick it up as I was leaving the base. I would think that you would be able to transfer it to the armory for safekeeping if it was an occasional thing and not an everyday occurence. This was in '04 or '05 though and security arrangements may be quite different now. I believe I was told that you can't even drive close to the security buiding anymore whereas I parked in their parking lot.
What has the people that run the shotgun/skeet range told you? Or you could find out who is in charge of base security and call or make an appointment to speak with him/her.
By the way, when I was on personal travel to/thru Charleston AFB, I notified police at the front gate also. They were a little more nervous about the situation and after looking at my pistol which I had already unloaded and had encased in a small safe in my trunk, they followed me to their security building and walked me in where I then transferred it to armory for safekeeping. Also picked it as I was leaving the base.

Let us know how things go. Good luck.



:wave:
 
#18 ·
rolyat63,

I don't know what military installation it is that you're speaking of, to be specific. If it is McDill AFB you're speaking of, I have carried to Tampa before and it was after 9/11. I had reservations on the base and was told by the front gate to go directly to security/police and carry my pistol unloaded and encased inside to armory for safekeeping. It was painless and quick, handled very well by the SP/security. I was told to pick it up as I was leaving the base. I would think that you would be able to transfer it to the armory for safekeeping if it was an occasional thing and not an everyday occurence. This was in '04 or '05 though and security arrangements may be quite different now. I believe I was told that you can't even drive close to the security buiding anymore whereas I parked in their parking lot.
What has the people that run the shotgun/skeet range told you? Or you could find out who is in charge of base security and call or make an appointment to speak with him/her.
By the way, when I was on personal travel to/thru Charleston AFB, I notified police at the front gate also. They were a little more nervous about the situation and after looking at my pistol which I had already unloaded and had encased in a small safe in my trunk, they followed me to their security building and walked me in where I then transferred it to armory for safekeeping. Also picked it as I was leaving the base.

Let us know how things go. Good luck.
:wave:
Thanks for the input. You hit it on the head. We have been try the wickets mentioned before and once we get the finished with the research we will go the route of Head LE and/or JAG. One the hurdles is that the AFI gives latitude for either the base or a MAJCOM to publish the Inst. So, we have to gleen through the base (6AMW), SOCOM and CENTCOM Instructions. Someone earlier posted a suggestion to seek out a skeet range shooter and inquire. One sits in the adjacent cubie. His response was like many on here but with the many different replies we've gotten and support paper, I'm gonna get a read from the head shed. Maybe the skycops that were here back then are now at CAFB:rofl:

BTW, P7fanatic when you had reservations at MacDill were you on orders or personal travel? Just to be sure if you were on orders did they include weapons?
 
#19 ·
The Nellis AFB armory is full so they cannot store your weapons there. We are allowed to keep them at home if we live on base. If you're not going to the base range and don't live on base, you're pretty much screwed. You'll have to go home and drop it off.
 
#20 ·
The only time you should be required to store your weapons at the armory while you live on base is if you lived in the barracks/dorms. If you live in family housing you are technically required to have them registered with the base but can keep them in housing.

YMMV
 
#21 ·
Technically and legally...failure to do so will result in Art 15/UCMJ action
 
#24 ·
With over 20 years active duty (retired 1984), it still amazes me how the US Military will hand you an M-16 but you can't keep your AR-15 on base unless you are married and live in other than BAQ/BOQ. Terrorists could attack most any base without fear of reprisal from the vast majority of the personnel stationed there as they are largely unarmed. Uncle Sam is almost as anti-gun as the Brady bunch. Sux, don't it.
 
#25 ·
With over 20 years active duty (retired 1984), it still amazes me how the US Military will hand you an M-16 but you can't keep your AR-15 on base unless you are married and live in other than BAQ/BOQ. Terrorists could attack most any base without fear of reprisal from the vast majority of the personnel stationed there as they are largely unarmed. Uncle Sam is almost as anti-gun as the Brady bunch. Sux, don't it.
Preach on brother. I've been saying that forever.
 
#26 ·
Ft. Sill, OK requires that all guns used for hunting or shooting on post be registered. Guns are registered at the same place where vehicles are registered. The registration form must be carried in any vehicle that has a gun aboard. If the vehicle is checked at the gate and an unregistered gun is found the driver must turn around.

Concealed carry on Army posts is prohibited.
 
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