ATF Loses 76 guns

This is a discussion on ATF Loses 76 guns within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I read your post and all others, I find it hard to believe that one can't see the red flags with this report. How can ...

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Thread: ATF Loses 76 guns

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    I read your post and all others, I find it hard to believe that one can't see the red flags with this report. How can these weapons and computers be (lost) or unaccounted for without being reported. As I said before we all make mistakes but we don't all sweep it under the carpet and not report it. Many of these people are working under color of law that holds them to a much higher standard than average citizens. It is not because it's the BATF, it is because it's a reasonable cause for alarm. As you stated, much worse has happened to others but that is not the focus of this thread. I don't expect to change anyone's mind I am just stating what's on mine.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  3. #32
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    Array OPFOR's Avatar
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    Roger that, rottkeeper. I think we agree, in principle. Those guilty of malfeasance and/or negligence should pay commensurate with their mistakes. What I take offense to is the gang-pile mentality that often arises when the BATFE is involved... We, as gun owners, need to take the same attitude with this story as we would with one that was about the NRA or "insert-your-favorite-big-organization-here..."

    The immediate "off with their heads!" that flies from many gun owners' mouths as soon as BATFE is mentioned smacks of bias and unfairness, things that we as gun owners should be especially vigilant to avoid.

    If there has been cover ups, lack of investigation, lack of controls, etc (and I believe that there has), punish the guilty, retrain the rest, establish the standard and make everyone stick to it. Don't send the lightning bolts from the sky just because you don't like the BATFE...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Roger that, rottkeeper. I think we agree, in principle. Those guilty of malfeasance and/or negligence should pay commensurate with their mistakes. What I take offense to is the gang-pile mentality that often arises when the BATFE is involved... We, as gun owners, need to take the same attitude with this story as we would with one that was about the NRA or "insert-your-favorite-big-organization-here..."

    The immediate "off with their heads!" that flies from many gun owners' mouths as soon as BATFE is mentioned smacks of bias and unfairness, things that we as gun owners should be especially vigilant to avoid.

    If there has been cover ups, lack of investigation, lack of controls, etc (and I believe that there has), punish the guilty, retrain the rest, establish the standard and make everyone stick to it. Don't send the lightning bolts from the sky just because you don't like the BATFE...
    Agreed, a few careless people do not and should not stain a whole group no matter what the affiliation.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    Agreed, a few careless people do not and should not stain a whole group no matter what the affiliation.
    However, understanding on their part is not the same. If you own an FFL and you have a bad employee that screws up. The entire FFL gets shut down. I agree to the extent of labeling an entire agency as the culprit is not very good practices; however, when that agencies sole mission right now is to make it harder and harder to transfer, and purchase guns; I don't think that this should be swept under the rug.

    The last FFL I worked at had an inspector who litterly tried eveything she could to shut us down, from dinging us on a blackpowder, to stating we lost a MP-5 machine gun. Stating that we had 4 serial numbers.

    We only had 2 MP-5A2's
    and 1 MPSD with a matching Can.

    HK stamps their SD's with matching serial numbers to the can and even though we should it to her and said look the serial numbers are the same, and the can is class III item she gave us so much crap about it.


    If you go out of your way to cause rukus among law-abiding gun dealers, manufactures, and make up rules as you go along then in my opinion when the light points back at you for the exact same reasons your putting people in jail for. I think a recomendation to
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    if my squadron... nay if my division lost that many weapons without due diligence IG would be over everyone here with all the nit picking of a congressional oversight commitee combined with an irs audit. why don't the BATFE get the same treatment?
    Last edited by bobcat35; October 6th, 2008 at 09:06 AM. Reason: yes i need a new keyboard and a dictionary
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
    -Winston Churchill
    Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
    -Inara, firefly

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