Fire support team resources (redlegs please help)

This is a discussion on Fire support team resources (redlegs please help) within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; im having a diffucult time finding information for some of the more advanced methods for my current MOS and was wondering if anyone here has ...

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Thread: Fire support team resources (redlegs please help)

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    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    Fire support team resources (redlegs please help)

    im having a diffucult time finding information for some of the more advanced methods for my current MOS and was wondering if anyone here has ever heard of "black magic" a method of calling for fire without FDC support but i can't seem to find it in my 6-30 or any other sources. any help would be appreciated.
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
    -Winston Churchill
    Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
    -Inara, firefly

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Have you tried looking on AKO?
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    Member Array FISTER's Avatar
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    Do you mean calling it in straight to the guns? Never heard of the black magic method , but if you could give me a little more info I could probably help you

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    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    I have heard of new systems, the M109A6 Paladin is one of the most modern 155mm pieces. It can receive fire controls and make calculations based on it's location and then shoot, move and communicate. No matter where it happens on the gun, or at Bn, etc.. the function has to happen. Guess ole Freddy FADAC and Tacfire/BCS is getting or gone obsolete. Well Freddy was going out in '82.

    There is a German piece that is the SOTA. and can take target data and calculate a firing solution.

    Overall product improvement in the areas of Survivability, RAM, and armament. This includes increased armor, redesigned (safer) internal stowage arrangement for ammunition and equipment, engine and suspension upgrades, and product improvement of the M284 cannon and M182A1 mount. The greatest difference is the integration of an inertial navigation system, sensors detecting the weapons' lay, automation, and an encrypted digital communication system which utilizes computer controlled frequency hopping to avoid enemy electronic warfare and allow the howitzer to send grid location and altitude to the battery fire direction center (FDC). The battery FDCs in turn coordinate fires through a battalion or higher FDC. This allows the Paladin to halt from the move and fire within 30 seconds with accuracy equivalent to the previous models when properly emplaced, laid, and safed--A process that required several minutes under the best of circumstances. Tactically, this improves the systems survivability by allowing the Battery to operate dispersed by pairs across the countryside and allowing the howitzer to quickly displace between salvos, or if attacked by indirect fire, aircraft, or ground forces.
    On an operational level this weapon represents a dramatic improvement in the performance of field artillery. This improvement in performance is perhaps as great as that of the first self propelled artillery over the preceding towed artillery. This is because the howitzers no longer need to occupy fixed firing positions but may now move with the advancing combat forces. They need stop only when a target is identified. After firing on a target, the Paladin is immediately able to resume movement.
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    Member Array FISTER's Avatar
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    The A6 for the most part still needs FDC

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat35 View Post
    im having a diffucult time finding information for some of the more advanced methods for my current MOS and was wondering if anyone here has ever heard of "black magic" a method of calling for fire without FDC support but i can't seem to find it in my 6-30 or any other sources. any help would be appreciated.
    I just don't understand this younger generation....
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    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    just received an e-mail from my old FSNCO. he told me to read FM 6-40 fortunatly one of the mortars in my unit has that fm and loaned it to me. now i feel like a moron


    Quote Originally Posted by FISTER View Post
    Do you mean calling it in straight to the guns? Never heard of the black magic method , but if you could give me a little more info I could probably help you
    black magic is considered a last resort method of adjusting artillery when the FDC is unavailable. its mostly rough estimation in place of the complex math the FDC does. found it in chapter 14. good read great info and i pray i will never have to apply it.

    (edit)
    in my defence i did search ako, FM6-30, and google and found nothing.
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
    -Winston Churchill
    Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
    -Inara, firefly

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    Member Array pfcslr's Avatar
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    ROUGH

    If you are going to attempt ANY rough estimations remeber to err on the side of caution. I assume that if you resort to this method there is no time for adjusting fire and a FFE OR FPF " ESTIMATED in on your team's heads is a situation where the "cure is as bad as what ails you". That said I know of units that carry mainly 60mm's and train to hunker down behind their rucks when calling in a danger close.

    You weren't thinking of "black horse" or "rum and coke" for calling in the clear were you? If so ask your more senior team members.

    Stay safe,
    Searn

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    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    fortunatly i have yet to bring a round too close to my element. but looking at these tables here i definatly would be trying to think of a better solution fast inside of danger close. who knows maybe this will never show up in my career outside of fist certs but its better to be prepared for the worst and hope good things happen than to be prepared only for the best when the SHTF.

    pfcslr havent heard of those but i'll look into it. i need to use this garrison time i got to fill out my fist book.
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
    -Winston Churchill
    Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
    -Inara, firefly

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    Senior Member Array CEW58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat35 View Post
    im having a diffucult time finding information for some of the more advanced methods for my current MOS and was wondering if anyone here has ever heard of "black magic" a method of calling for fire without FDC support but i can't seem to find it in my 6-30 or any other sources. any help would be appreciated.
    I'm an old 13E. Is this what you're looking for?
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    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat35 View Post
    im having a diffucult time finding information for some of the more advanced methods for my current MOS and was wondering if anyone here has ever heard of "black magic" a method of calling for fire without FDC support but i can't seem to find it in my 6-30 or any other sources. any help would be appreciated.
    We fired almost 500,000 rounds of heavy artillery in Vietnam. I have never heard of black magic except in a song. The only time that I heard of firing without FDC support was in direct fire emergency situations.

    "Guns of the DMZ in Vietnam

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