I had ASP training today!

I had ASP training today!

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Thread: I had ASP training today!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    I had ASP training today!

    For my Reserve Officer training.

    I am going to be so sore for the next few days I am afraid. Great training though! After going through the use of force, escalation/de-escalation of force, and the lethal areas, we started the 'fun' stuff.

    Small class of 7, mixed backgrounds for sure. Some active military(CID agent, and Sr Drill Instructor), some really close to retiring military, and a few civilians.

    Surprising as to which ones had trouble with opening and closing.

    We learned the strikes, and practiced them with our partners holding the pads, then switching up and taking the abuse. Really nice to have someone on the other side to encourage, and critique from an non-professional view.

    The instructor told of his real world experience on a disturbance call that ended only after 4 officers were were involved.

    He told us that he struck the guy atleast 8 times on the common peroneal, and the subject didn't even flinch. They did not know at the time that he had just smoked PCP prior to them getting the call. He went on to say that the subject went to the hospital via EMS from the scene, and was released from care to be taken to jail. The subject died in jail 2 days later. Not from the incident fortunately. Luckily one of the dash cams caught the entire incident on tape. It showed that use of force was justified, and ended as soon as the subject was in cuffs.

    Broke for lunch, and some how we ended up at Taco Bell. There was quite a few jokes made about how it would look, when it came back up, after we started the Redman training.

    After lunch, we practiced our strikes on pads, which truly showed everyone how tired you could be after just a 1 minute fight. We were pretty wooped, then he suits up!

    The Redman training was GREAT! Really puts everything into perspective. We had to indentify ourselves, state why he was under arrest,and give orders for him to comply with the arrest. Of course we all told him to turn around and put his hands behind his back. SO he was doing circles with his arms behind him, and telling us "No" he wasn't going peacefully. At that point, we could strike him. That was much more difficult than it appeared at all. The whole time we were strinking, and moving, we had to give commands to comply, LOUDLY. If he coudln't hear it, we had to keep striking. Man that wears you down quickly. Once you struck him hard enough, in the correct locations without being struck yourself, then you could take him to the ground for the arrest.

    Distance was a big thing for most of us. We seemed to want to start crowding him, so he would take a light swing at our heads to remind us to keep our distance.

    Everyone finished up, and we all talked about what we learned and observed. The instructor told us he was glad we weren't a re-cert class for the department, since that usually beats him down after about 30 people wail on him in an afternoon.

    Good training as far as I am concerned, no injuries, and everyone now understands why there are choices for escalation of force.

    Next week.................. O.C
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    The expandable baton (I prefer the ASP) is a wonderful self defense tool, IF YOU HAVE PROPER TRAINING! Otherwise, it's just a short stick. I wish there were more training available for the legal citizen.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  3. #3
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    we had our defense tactics/mechanics of arrest in the academy a couple of months ago

    we did some of the same stuff as you described, except we got to also use a padded baton on each other, everyone had huge welps and bruises on legs and arms for a couple of weeks, was fun to learn all of the nerve manipulation/pressure points, pain compliance techniques
    was great training
    LEO/CHL
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Defensive Tactics is a couple weeks out still. I wish they would have done these in a different order, like Def. Tacs, ASP, OC.... Firearms, but they have to do iti when they can get the instructor.

    Man I am stiff and getting sore already. Time for some Ibuprofin.
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    I carry the Monadnock AutoLock. Great tools to have. One department near me requires that their Officers carry one (or OC) off duty if they're carrying a gun.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

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    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that if you are continually hitting a green target area, "the common peroneal" for example, and the guy doesn't flinch, you may be justified in moving to a yellow target area, such as the knee. Again you can always use the force necessary to effect the arrest. If the green target areas aren't getting it done, either move to the yellow target areas, or transition to another force option such as a Taser or Spray. But hitting the guy over and over again and getting zero results is generally not a great tactic.

    I'm not trying to Monday morning quarter back your friend. I'm just giving you something to think about. Of course remember to use loud verbal commands. I'm sure this was all covered in your training. Just a reminder.

  7. #7
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    I've never once used my ASP for anything but breaking windows. They're great for that BTW.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Best thing I've ever used to keep a dog at bay while moving toward the door. Point it at his muzzle and keep driving on. If needed, a quick tap will get his attention, the muzzle is tender!
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi.45 View Post
    I carry the Monadnock AutoLock. Great tools to have. One department near me requires that their Officers carry one (or OC) off duty if they're carrying a gun.
    That is what I'll be carrying since the PD uses them instead of ASP, but the PD instructor was in the Academy for some other training, we went in with the SO Reserves class.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJake View Post
    Keep in mind that if you are continually hitting a green target area, "the common peroneal" for example, and the guy doesn't flinch, you may be justified in moving to a yellow target area, such as the knee. Again you can always use the force necessary to effect the arrest. If the green target areas aren't getting it done, either move to the yellow target areas, or transition to another force option such as a Taser or Spray. But hitting the guy over and over again and getting zero results is generally not a great tactic.

    I'm not trying to Monday morning quarter back your friend. I'm just giving you something to think about. Of course remember to use loud verbal commands. I'm sure this was all covered in your training. Just a reminder.
    Jake, I am sure the use of force was reviewed after this particular incident as far as the ASP was concerned. Since we are Reserve Officers and Deputies, he only needed to get through the basics with us at this point. When we have to re-cert in the spring, we'll get more in depth.

    As far as the strikes to green targets, as anybody who has had this training knows, not all strikes hit the intended target. We found out working with the Redman. As we would start at Combat Ready making our swing, he would move and of course the baton struck either the upper arm, or higher on the hip.
    A couple of us talked about how we could approach a combative larger suspect.......

    Asp at Combat Ready, and OC held low on weak side. But then we thought through that scenario......that could be really bad for the officer if OC didn't work, or if he saw it and charged you with both your hands holding weapons.



    We were also told that if we wanted more training or a review at any time, all we had to do is call him, or talk to our SS or Road Sergeant. He actually enjoys teaching it. Sometime in the near future he comes off the road and becomes part of the Training Section.
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"

  10. #10
    Member Array AgentX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I've never once used my ASP for anything but breaking windows. They're great for that BTW.
    Also found them useful for picking through underwear drawers on search warrants.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJake View Post
    Keep in mind that if you are continually hitting a green target area, "the common peroneal" for example, and the guy doesn't flinch, you may be justified in moving to a yellow target area, such as the knee. Again you can always use the force necessary to effect the arrest. If the green target areas aren't getting it done, either move to the yellow target areas, or transition to another force option such as a Taser or Spray. But hitting the guy over and over again and getting zero results is generally not a great tactic.

    I'm not trying to Monday morning quarter back your friend. I'm just giving you something to think about. Of course remember to use loud verbal commands. I'm sure this was all covered in your training. Just a reminder.
    Well said, I made it a rule to have my closed ASP in my hand during any sketchy persons call. Easy enough to put away. I was able to use it dozens of times because I had it in my hand when the SHTF. I actually bent it on a guy once. Several thigh strikes failed to have the intended effect so a shot to the ball of the ankle folded him like a lawn chair.

    When I teach stick I use joint presses, body locks and chokes in addtion. They allow for a measured response and look better on film then clubbing someone like a harp seal.

    I think that traditional stick training for police is a failure and officer don't have any confidence in what they are taught. Too many rely on OC and the Tazer. The Tazer especially for officers who are afraid to go hands on since usually the person Tazing does not do the handcuffing.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    Well said, I made it a rule to have my closed ASP in my hand during any sketchy persons call. Easy enough to put away. I was able to use it dozens of times because I had it in my hand when the SHTF. I actually bent it on a guy once. Several thigh strikes failed to have the intended effect so a shot to the ball of the ankle folded him like a lawn chair.

    When I teach stick I use joint presses, body locks and chokes in addtion. They allow for a measured response and look better on film then clubbing someone like a harp seal.

    I think that traditional stick training for police is a failure and officer don't have any confidence in what they are taught. Too many rely on OC and the Tazer. The Tazer especially for officers who are afraid to go hands on since usually the person Tazing does not do the handcuffing.
    I'd prefer to carry a old fashioned hickory stick myself. I've actually got "write ups" for not using my Taser and going hands on.

    Lessons learned from good old police work tend to last a little longer than the new fangled wonder gadgets.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    A man after my own heart. Here is something I wrote you might find interesting.
    MODERN COMBATIVE SYSTEMS - Root of Excessive Force

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    A man after my own heart. Here is something I wrote you might find interesting.
    MODERN COMBATIVE SYSTEMS - Root of Excessive Force
    Thats a good article, I enjoyed it. Perhaps I'll post it in the squad room.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Thanks, I believe there is a lot of truth in it.

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