Another Round Of Presidential Pardons And Guess Who Didn't Make The List?

This is a discussion on Another Round Of Presidential Pardons And Guess Who Didn't Make The List? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by agentmel I have a friend who works for the border patrol. She says the scuttlebutt is it was a questionable shoot at ...

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Thread: Another Round Of Presidential Pardons And Guess Who Didn't Make The List?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentmel View Post
    I have a friend who works for the border patrol. She says the scuttlebutt is it was a questionable shoot at best. Most people in her office seem to think they deserved to be fired, not spend a decade in jail. At the very least they seem to have violated border patrol policy.

    Mel
    I have to say that I disagree with your friend. I work for Immigration.
    The only mistake Ramos and Compeon made was that they picked up the shells. They should have left them on the ground.

    They DID report the incident to their supervisor, who is required to fill out the report.

    Sutton questioned the supervisor and threatened to put him in the trick bag.

    Sutton made it evident that he wanted to prosecute CBP for shooting a Mexican national.

    Ramos and Compeon (and other CBP officers) knew Davila was a drug runner. During the trial, Sutton filed a motion to suppress evidence....that Davila had 950 lbs. of pot in his van. The jury never were informed that Davila had the pot at the time of the incident.

    Sutton also gave Davila a "pass" and Davila was allowed to come into the U.S. 12 more times. CBP could not touch him.

    To add insult to injury, Immigration was ordered to give Davila Lawful Permanent Residence status. That is a total slap in the face of law and justice.

    Davila then sued the federal government for $5M for damages.

    This issue really burns me up.

    I don't see much difference between Mike Nyfong and Johnny Sutton.

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  3. #17
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    The only mistake Ramos and Compeon made was that they picked up the shells. They should have left them on the ground.
    Perhaps they should not have shot an unarmed man who was running away.

    Ramos and Compeon (and other CBP officers) knew Davila was a drug runner. During the trial, Sutton filed a motion to suppress evidence....that Davila had 950 lbs. of pot in his van. The jury never were informed that Davila had the pot at the time of the incident.
    Exactly how is that relevant? You can't shoot someone because he is a scumbag and then try to cover it up. The fact iswas an illegal and a drug runner simply had no bearing on the shooting and would have tainted the jury.

    I don't see much difference between Mike Nyfong and Johnny Sutton.
    Nyfong indicted innocent people who did nothing more than demonstrate immaturity and lack of judgement.

    Ramos and Compean broke the law. They were found guilty in a jury trial and punished as the law requires.

    President Bush should pardon Ramos and Compean. I don't think he will.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Perhaps they should not have shot an unarmed man who was running away.
    DOBBS: At what point did you fire at the suspect?

    RAMOS: When he made a threatening motion to me, when he turned and pointed what I believed was a gun to me. Had he never turned, you know, there would have been no shot. But when I told him to stop, he turned and made a threatening motion to me, and that's when I fired.
    Interview with Ignacio Ramos - CNN.com

    I adamantly disagree with your "assumption", S.D.

  5. #19
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    RAMOS: When he made a threatening motion to me, when he turned and pointed what I believed was a gun to me. Had he never turned, you know, there would have been no shot. But when I told him to stop, he turned and made a threatening motion to me, and that's when I fired.
    I had no idea Ramos denied culpability. I am now convinced.

    That whole jury trial thing is overrated. We should just ask the defendants whether they did it.

  6. #20
    Member Array nuparadigm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    ...
    The only mistake Ramos and Compeon made was that they picked up the shells. They should have left them on the ground. ...
    You're correct, Patti, Ramos and Compean do not diserve to be where they are today, but it's not because they picked up their brass.

    The policing-up the brass is definitely not evidence of a cover-up or any sort of wrong-doing on the part of the two Agents. Here's why:

    1. the supervisor was on the scene and knew what they were doing and did not order them to stop picking up brass.

    2. Border Patrol Agents are seriously drilled in the discipline of picking up brass. The reason is that you turn in your spent brass (when you reach fifty pieces) and exchange it in the arms room for a box of live rounds.

    I'm not impressed with much of the arm chair quarterbacking that goes on in forums concerning this particular shooting incident. It does an extreme disservice to the morale of the Agents who are still working and not in prison and it fosters a grim vista of fatalism in the Agents.....not unlike soldiers, sailors and Marines returning from Vietnam and being reviled for doing their jobs.

    Jose and Nacho were railroaded.

    BTW it's not a "trick bag"; it a trique bag. This is a term Tonks use to describe the bags in which they carry their things when they jump the Line. Agents have picked up the term to refer to the bags in which they carry their gear.
    The Edge ... there's no honest way to describe it. The only ones who know where it is have gone over.

  7. #21
    Member Array nuparadigm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    ...
    Ramos and Compean broke the law. They were found guilty in a jury trial and punished as the law requires. ...
    They were found guilty by a jury that was not allowed to hear relevant exculpatory evidence.
    The Edge ... there's no honest way to describe it. The only ones who know where it is have gone over.

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    I agree...the whole thing stinks. But I am left wondering why the appeals process failed or even the very conservative Governor not weighing in. Why was the federals so adament going after these guys...what was hoped to be gained by throwing them into prison?? So many things just don't add up where I almost feel the entire story is not being told...by the way, how does one get shot in the butt if they turned to face the border agents (at least from what I read)??

    Rick

  9. #23
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuparadigm View Post
    They were found guilty by a jury that was not allowed to hear relevant exculpatory evidence.
    Exactly what exculpatory evidence was the jury not allowed to hear?

  10. #24
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    I agree...the whole thing stinks. But I am left wondering why the appeals process failed or even the very conservative Governor not weighing in.
    It is because the case was straightforward.

    Why was the federals so adament going after these guys...what was hoped to be gained by throwing them into prison??
    Uhhh, they broke the law.

    So many things just don't add up where I almost feel the entire story is not being told...by the way, how does one get shot in the butt if they turned to face the border agents (at least from what I read)??
    What doesn't add up?

  11. #25
    Member Array nuparadigm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Exactly what exculpatory evidence was the jury not allowed to hear?
    I'm sorry that you're not able to do your own research, so I'll give you a helping hand:

    The fact that Sutton's office knew Davila was a multiple offender prior to the Ramos and Compean trial and moved to keep that information from jury. The trial judge granted the motion.

    Here's a link to the trial transcripts where you read until your eyes glaze over. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1784408/posts I wish you well on your arm chair quarterbacking. It's sad, though, to read the words of someone such as yourself who quite apparently believes every word that proceeds from the mouths of governmental appointees. For someone who has the Constitution as their avatar, I would have expected more.
    The Edge ... there's no honest way to describe it. The only ones who know where it is have gone over.

  12. #26
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuparadigm View Post
    I'm sorry that you're not able to do your own research, so I'll give you a helping hand:

    The fact that Sutton's office knew Davila was a multiple offender prior to the Ramos and Compean trial and moved to keep that information from jury. The trial judge granted the motion.
    I am very familiar with the case, which is why I gave you an opportunity to provide new information. The fact that the scumbag was a drug dealer had no bearing on the shooting. Yes, he needed shooting but our brave Border Patrol agents broke the law and then tried to cover it up. Those are the facts.

    I wish you well on your arm chair quarterbacking. It's sad, though, to read the words of someone such as yourself who quite apparently believes every word that proceeds from the mouths of governmental appointees. For someone who has the Constitution as their avatar, I would have expected more.
    Arrm chair quarterbacking? You must be the defense attorney! It's difficult to defend guity clients.

    I'm sorry you hold the jury trial system in disdain. It is sad to read the words of someone who quite apparently believes every word from the mouths of government employees.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    I know Pres. Bush feels he needs to make the right decision based on his party, but good grief at least commute their sentences to time served if you won't give them a full pardon. Let them go home.
    I hoped that would at least happen as well... there is still time, if someone would push it while Bush is still in office.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    I agree...the whole thing stinks. But I am left wondering why the appeals process failed or even the very conservative Governor not weighing in. Why was the federals so adament going after these guys...what was hoped to be gained by throwing them into prison?? So many things just don't add up where I almost feel the entire story is not being told...by the way, how does one get shot in the butt if they turned to face the border agents (at least from what I read)??

    Rick
    The bullet entered from a side angle.

    Davila was running, but he turned around. When he turned, Ramos thought Davila had a weapon in his hand. According to Davila's mother, Davila always carried a weapon when he crossed the border (illegally).

    In court, Sutton portrayed Ramos as a wife beater, which is an out-and-out lie.

    Sutton didn't get to be a U.S. Attorney by being weak. He's a junkyard dog in the court room.

    Why did Sutton choose to prosecute the officers instead of the drug runner?

    I believe this prosecution is politically motivated and Ramos and Compeon are political prisoners.

    I was hoping that the conviction would be overturned in the appeals court.

    Since it wasn't, the best we can hope for is a pardon, or a commuted sentence.

  15. #29
    Member Array nuparadigm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I am very familiar with the case, which is why I gave you an opportunity to provide new information. The fact that the scumbag was a drug dealer had no bearing on the shooting. Yes, he needed shooting but our brave Border Patrol agents broke the law and then tried to cover it up. Those are the facts.



    Arrm chair quarterbacking? You must be the defense attorney! It's difficult to defend guity clients.
    Actually, it does have bearing on the shooting and the self defense on the part of the two Agents. Since you are "very familiar" with the case, I can conclude only that you have forgotten the lies told to the court by Ms. Kanof (relative to this point) in pretrial motion hearings.

    No, I am not a lawyer .... but I'm not a engineer, either.
    The Edge ... there's no honest way to describe it. The only ones who know where it is have gone over.

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    The bullet entered from a side angle.

    Davila was running, but he turned around. When he turned, Ramos thought Davila had a weapon in his hand. According to Davila's mother, Davila always carried a weapon when he crossed the border (illegally).

    In court, Sutton portrayed Ramos as a wife beater, which is an out-and-out lie.

    Sutton didn't get to be a U.S. Attorney by being weak. He's a junkyard dog in the court room.

    Why did Sutton choose to prosecute the officers instead of the drug runner?

    I believe this prosecution is politically motivated and Ramos and Compeon are political prisoners.

    I was hoping that the conviction would be overturned in the appeals court.

    Since it wasn't, the best we can hope for is a pardon, or a commuted sentence.
    1) Politically motivated??? For what reason???

    2) Running, then turning...have you ever tried that (and see where your butt ends up at???...as a football player...they say it is all in the hips).

    3) Not sure how the wife beater bit was even allowed by the judge...or in what context it was allowed.

    I'll be the first to admit...don't know all the facts...even after watched Lou Dobbs and read what the TX Congressmen have been saying. Even after the appeals court would not overturn the convictions, the Gov would not weigh-in, and the BP hiearchy as well as little I have seen from the union not protesting, leaves me to wonder that perhaps the legal system got it right.

    Rick

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