Another Round Of Presidential Pardons And Guess Who Didn't Make The List? - Page 3

Another Round Of Presidential Pardons And Guess Who Didn't Make The List?

This is a discussion on Another Round Of Presidential Pardons And Guess Who Didn't Make The List? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Some good helpful info I found on Glenn Beck: The issue: 'Border Agents: Ramos & Compean' What the liberal whiners say: 1. 'They were rogue ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
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    Some good helpful info I found on Glenn Beck:


    The issue:

    'Border Agents: Ramos & Compean'

    What the liberal whiners say:

    1. 'They were rogue cops, who shot an unarmed man in the butt'
    2. 'They didn't report the shooting, and made the crime worse by disposing of the shell casings'
    3. 'Hey, they were convicted by a jury of their peers'
    4. 'The only ones who believe these guys are racist talk radio hosts

    Your winning, logical, reasoned arguments:

    1. Rogue cops? Ignacio Ramos had been nominated for "Border Agent of the Year" in 2005. Joe Compean, in addition to serving his country in the border patrol, also served honorably in the Navy. There was nothing "rogue" about either one of these agents. As for shooting an "unarmed" man in the back; the only one who says he was unarmed was the drug dealer (Aldrete-Davila) himself, and the prosecutors who gave him immunity to testify. Ramos and Compean maintain to this day, that they saw something shiny in his hand as he turned and pointed toward them. Do you believe a drug cartel mule, who'd been smuggling drugs since he was 14, or two men who'd devoted their lives to protecting their country?

    2. The fact that they didn't report the shooting is often cited by U.S. Attorney, Johnny Sutton and repeated often in the press. However, filing a written report is NOT required, and there were 15 agents, including three supervisors on the scene by the end of the incident. It was well known to their supervisors. The disposing of the shell casings was a departmental problem...NOT a crime. A suspension or even dismissal from their positions should have been the harshest punishment they faced; not 11 & 12 YEARS in Federal Prison. No one even KNEW that the illegal alien smuggler had been hit by their fire.

    3. Yes, a jury of peers who was told that drug smuggler Aldrete-Davila had never done such a thing before. He was simply trying to raise $2000 for surgery his mother needed, and he didn't even know what he was delivering. The prosecution knew this was a lie, and in fact, after having been given immunity for the drug bust to testify, plus free medical care and unlimited passes across the border, he was caught not once, but TWICE more...with drug loads totaling about a ton. Knowing this, and encouraging him to testify of these lies, the prosecution was guilty of suborning purjury. The witness had NO credibility, and the jury was lied to.

    4. It's interesting that so many who hate the Bush Administration and everything it does, including firing eight U.S. Attorneys for political reasons, would now side with that same Bush Justice Department against two Hispanic Americans. Pasty white U.S. Attorney, Johnny Sutton, and his group of Casper the friendly ghost prosecutorial team, viciously went after two Hispanic law enforcement agents, using a gun charge in the commission of a crime statute to force mandatory 10 year federal sentences in this case...but the talk hosts who are fighting so vigorously for these Hispanic agents are somehow racist? Can you explain that to me?
    While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Ramos and Compeon have a lot of champions: both politicians and media pundits (like Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity).

    One of their most ardent supporters is CA Congressman Dana Rohrabacher.

    Here's a link to an interview with Tara Setmayer, CA Congressman Dana Rohrabacher's communications director:

    Glenn Beck - Interviews - Glenn Beck: Compean & Ramos update

    A link to Lou Dobbs interview with Reps. Ted Poe and Walter Jones:

    YouTube - Reps Ted Poe - Walter Jones On Ramos/Compean Appeal - Dobbs

  3. #33
    Member Array Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAT40 View Post
    4. It's interesting that so many who hate the Bush Administration and everything it does, including firing eight U.S. Attorneys for political reasons, would now side with that same Bush Justice Department against two Hispanic Americans. Pasty white U.S. Attorney, Johnny Sutton, and his group of Casper the friendly ghost prosecutorial team, viciously went after two Hispanic law enforcement agents, using a gun charge in the commission of a crime statute to force mandatory 10 year federal sentences in this case...but the talk hosts who are fighting so vigorously for these Hispanic agents are somehow racist? Can you explain that to me?
    So, um, you/Glenn Beck are making a counterargument against a racist-based position by, um, making a racist-based description of the prosecutorial team?

    Or am I reading this point wrong?

  4. #34
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    I still don't have a firm grasp on this case or a solid opinion. I've watched Sutton on TV; I've watched Dobbs and others. I've read news reports.

    My impression is that something is rotten here; but I'm quite uncertain where the rot lies.

    This case has garnered nothing but bad press for both Bush and Sutton, and it is hard to imagine any "political" motivation for it. OTOH, the charges and sentence seem extremely harsh, so either they (the prosecution) know something we don't, or as is too often the case with this present bunch, are simply unwilling and unable to admit that they made an error. (I'm talking Bush and Sutton making an error, not the two ex CBO agents; they too may be unwilling and unable to admit they made an error.)

    What I do firmly believe is that the charges and the sentence were highly excessive and unusual, and justice was not served. I frankly don't mind a bit if an illegal alien drug smuggler got shot in the a...s It should happen to a few (quite a few) more so maybe the turmoil on the other side won't spill over to here.

    If we don't put a stop to the people and drug smuggling from Mexico we will have chaos beyond our wildest imaginings.

  5. #35
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    What I do firmly believe is that the charges and the sentence were highly excessive and unusual, and justice was not served.
    The sentence was not subjective. It was a mandatory minimum sentence for the crimes they committed. The judge had no option. Rightly, he followed the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by nuparadigm View Post
    Actually, it does have bearing on the shooting and the self defense on the part of the two Agents.
    Can you explain why you think that the victim's previous record had a bearing on an unprovoked shooting of an unarmed man?

    Since you are "very familiar" with the case, I can conclude only that you have forgotten the lies told to the court by Ms. Kanof (relative to this point) in pretrial motion hearings.
    Irrelevant.

    No, I am not a lawyer .... but I'm not a engineer, either.
    Obviously, you are not a lwayer. Your arguments are weak and off point. And obviously you are not an engineer. We are trained in logic.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    I hope they are pardoned, they never should have been convicted in the first place.

    "I frankly don't mind a bit if an illegal alien drug smuggler got shot in the a...s It should happen to a few (quite a few) more........" That's the most logical post I've read on this Hopyard. It saddens me that some people can't see the simple truth and common sense behind that comment.

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Can you explain why you think that the victim's previous record had a bearing on an unprovoked shooting of an unarmed man?

    Obviously, you are not a lwayer. Your arguments are weak and off point. And obviously you are not an engineer. We are trained in logic.
    Why do you say it was unprovoked?

    Why do you say Davila was unarmed?

    You assume a lot.

    You also misspelled "lawyer".

    As for me, I trust cops more than I do lawyers.

  8. #38
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    Yes, but the prosecutor had discretion as to charge

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    The sentence was not subjective. It was a mandatory minimum sentence for the crimes they committed. The judge had no option. Rightly, he followed the law.
    Yes, but the prosecutor had discretion as to charge.
    There was a peculiar application of laws initially intended for a different type of case and different type of "criminal."


    (Oh, and I'm no fan of Federal sentencing guidelines. In this I share a position held by very many Federal judges and likely by several The Supremes. Congress always looks for "a quick fix" and a way to show they are resolute in the face of crime. One result was these guidelines, which often do not serve justice very well.)

  9. #39
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    Self Defense...you said...
    I am very familiar with the case, which is why I gave you an opportunity to provide new information.
    Someone was gracious enough to provide you with the court transcripts. These are signed and sworn for accuracy. It is the standard of which to argue from, yet you dismiss it.

    Yet, like many of your other statements, you assume that the judge is a he when in fact it's a she and you being an engineer know that it is quite illogical to assume anything.

    How is it that one that claims to know so much could miss this at the top of each page
    THE HONORABLE KATHLEEN CARDONE
    11 UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
    It obvious to me that you dont know as much about the case as you assume.

    Why not read the actuall court transcripts that were provided and use that as a basis for judgement rather than the hearsay and assumptions that you have been using ?

    Obviously, you are not a lwayer. Your arguments are weak and off point. And obviously you are not an engineer. We are trained in logic.
    Since you are trained in logic, how about showing some?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  10. #40
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Someone was gracious enough to provide you with the court transcripts. These are signed and sworn for accuracy. It is the standard of which to argue from, yet you dismiss it.
    I did not dismiss the transcripts. I dismissed the poster who preferred personal attacks to an objective dscussion of the facts.

    Yet, like many of your other statements, you assume that the judge is a he when in fact it's a she and you being an engineer know that it is quite illogical to assume anything.
    Actually, as engineers we make many assumptions in the course of our jobs. Sometimes those assumptions are shown to be false. Just curious, are you assuming the judge is a female based solely on the name?

    Why not read the actuall court transcripts that were provided and use that as a basis for judgement rather than the hearsay and assumptions that you have been using ?
    I am not here to judge. The jury has already spoken and they unanimously decided the defendants were guilty as charged. The facts are not in dispute. They are what they are. If any of us would have had such a bad shoot we would be bemoaning how that type of person should not have a permit and gives all gun owners a bad name. This case is a black eye to our wonderful Border Patrol agents.

  11. #41
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    Just curious, are you assuming the judge is a female based solely on the name
    Nope. If you read the transcript its pretty obvious.

    The whole thing stinks even worse than I imagined. I dont puch much faith in hearsay, but reading the transcripts leaves much to ponder.
    As for the jury, they will eat what they are fed. Jurys have been wrong before and they will continue to be wrong in the future. When pertinent evidence is suppressed, it changes the whole picture that a jury will see.

    Its like masking the top half of a portrait. You see the body but you have no idea what the face looks like.

    Had this occured anywhere else in the country, I seriously doubt that either agent would be in jail...and that is what stinks.

    And to give an illegal alien that was a known mule, free medical attention, a free pass in and out of this country, and a free ride, is criminal. Lets not forget that this thug had a pretty fair quantity of drugs in the van.

    Me, you and everyone else here can argue this case until the cows come home and no one will change their mind. Since that be the case, I believe that this thread has run its due course and I am closing it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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