California -- Forced release of 1/3rd of prisoners??

California -- Forced release of 1/3rd of prisoners??

This is a discussion on California -- Forced release of 1/3rd of prisoners?? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; U.S. judges seek massive California prisoner release Mon Feb 9, 2009 9:57pm EST By Peter Henderson SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Federal judges on Monday tentatively ...

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Thread: California -- Forced release of 1/3rd of prisoners??

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    California -- Forced release of 1/3rd of prisoners??

    U.S. judges seek massive California prisoner release
    Mon Feb 9, 2009 9:57pm EST


    By Peter Henderson

    SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Federal judges on Monday tentatively ordered California to release tens of thousands of inmates, up to a third of all prisoners, in the next three years to stop dangerous overcrowding.

    As many as 57,000 could be let go if the current population were cut by the maximum percentage considered by a three-judge panel. Judges said the move could be done without threatening public safety -- and might improve a public safety hazard.

    The state immediately said it would appeal the final ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court.

    Trend-setting California, the Golden State, has an immense prison system responsible for nearly 170,000 inmates, and their care has become a major political and budget issue as officials weigh multibillion costs of improved facilities against death and illness behind bars.

    State officials say new doctors, nurses and prison rules have improved care and cut the dangers of living behind bars.

    Meanwhile California is staggering through budget crisis as its real estate market has collapsed and unemployment has spiked.

    The three judges specifically said they planned to order the system, swollen to about double its capacity last year, to cut down to 120 percent to 145 percent of capacity within two to three years. They did not give a target headcount.

    APPEAL VOWED

    California already houses some inmates out of state. Its main in-state prisons and camps had more than 157,000 prisoners, or 188 percent of capacity, as of the end of January, according to state figures, and a cut to 120 percent of capacity would mean letting go about 57,000 prisoners.

    "They've told the state, 'You're going to lose,'" said Alison Hardy, a lawyer with Berkeley, California-based Prison Law Office, which with other attorneys represented plaintiffs who had sued the state over overcrowding in its prisons.

    Attorney General Jerry Brown, the former governor, said he would appeal the final ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court.

    "This order, the latest intrusion by the federal judiciary into California's prison system, is a blunt instrument that does not recognize the imperatives of public safety, nor the challenges of incarcerating criminals, many of whom are deeply disturbed," he said in a statement.

    "There is no doubt that there is room for improvement. But significant progress has been made and is continuing to be made at a cost of billions," he added.

    The three judges made the tentative ruling in a bid to get the opposing sides to work together, and they offered a court-appointed settlement referee to aid in discussions.

    They did not say when the final ruling would be made but were clear that they considered the system still in trouble despite progress, with inadequate medical facilities and prisoners three to a cell, increasing spread of disease.

    "There is no relief other than a prisoner release order that can remedy the constitutionally inadequate medical and mental health care," the panel led by Court of Appeals Judge Stephen Reinhardt, wrote.

    "The state has a number of options, including reform of the earned credit and parole systems, that would serve to reduce the population of the prison to whatever percentage is ultimately determined to be appropriate without adversely affecting public safety," the judges wrote.

    The panel ordered the state to consult with the prisoners' lawyers to consider what actions to take.

    (Reporting by Jim Christie and Peter Henderson; Editing by Eric Walsh)
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If your complaining cause your in prison and it's really crowded how about you don't break the law and get thrown in prison.I think before they just release all those criminals they should let people arm themselves cause the recidivism rate is high and most of those convicts will be doing the same thing or worse that got them locked up
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    This might sound cruel and mean. I say we take the rapist, murderers and child molesters and have a turkey shoot, we'll cut the population down by 57,000 easily I would expect.

    Ok, that's extreme maybe, but I'm not sorry.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

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    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    The way I see it the whole crimminal justice system in the entire US is screwed up because of our protection from "cruel and unusual" punishment. I think by definition punishment must be to some degree cruel; one cannot really be punished by kindness. That said our Founding Fathers had a very different idea of what cruel and unusual meant. So, just as in the case of the 2nd amendment, liberal progressives manipulate and re-interpret the Constitution to the detriment of all law abiding Americans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    This might sound cruel and mean. I say we take the rapist, murderers and child molesters and have a turkey shoot, we'll cut the population down by 57,000 easily I would expect.

    Ok, that's extreme maybe, but I'm not sorry.
    Pretty much my sentiments also. In addition to that it would solve the problem of what to do with the Gitmo prisoners.

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    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    We can just add them to the 600,000 that just lost there jobs....Oh our new President can get them jobs.........stupid me they already have jobs as crooks, drug addicts, thief, carjackers, pimps, rapists, drug dealers, burglars, arsonists, ..........
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    As many as 57,000 could be let go if the current population were cut by the maximum percentage considered by a three-judge panel. Judges said the move could be done without threatening public safety -- and might improve a public safety hazard.
    Of course, one of the terms of release is they will have to cross their heart and promise not to commit any crimes. Plus only those who are innocent of the crime they were convicted of are eligible for release. Those 2 conditions alone should clear out 3/4 of the prison population.

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    There are lots of folks in prisons who could do OK in less restrictive setting.

    It sure is funny how all the folks here talk about believing in our constitution but then don't want to uphold this provision or that-- like the one about cruel punishment. You either take our founding document to heart, all provisions, or you don't. No picking and chosing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There are lots of folks in prisons who could do OK in less restrictive setting.

    It sure is funny how all the folks here talk about believing in our constitution but then don't want to uphold this provision or that-- like the one about cruel punishment. You either take our founding document to heart, all provisions, or you don't. No picking and chosing.
    While I don't think they should receive cruel or inhumane punishment. I don't see how overcrowding in a environment you chose to live in is either one. If you break the law you have chosen to live in a prison environment. The only thing you should be given is food and someplace to sleep and basic medical care. Anything else should be earned. Create a full range of prison industries and pay them a minimum wage to work in them. If you want to watch TV it cost you so much a month, if you want use of a computer you pay for it, you want to go to the gym and work out, you pay for it. None of those are things they are "entitled" to.

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    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Not picking and choosing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There are lots of folks in prisons who could do OK in less restrictive setting.

    It sure is funny how all the folks here talk about believing in our constitution but then don't want to uphold this provision or that-- like the one about cruel punishment. You either take our founding document to heart, all provisions, or you don't. No picking and chosing.

    I take our Constitution at face value based in the context of the time it was written. The Founding Fathers clearly believed in both corporal punishment and capital punishment as both of these were widely used through the 19th century. Unfortunately, the Founding Fathers definition of what is cruel has been diluted by time and the liberalizing of our society. I draw the same parallel to our RTKBA which continues to be assailed and weakened by these same elements. Neither of these issues is picking and chosing prefered elements of the Constitution it is simply reading the document as it was intended.

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    prisons are far too luxurious. I don't think forcing someone to sit in a cell with nothing inside but a bed and a toilet and giving them an hour of excercise per day is cruel or unusual. No TV, no smoking, no happiness. No personal space. It's almost like nowadays we are just trying to remove them from society without actually punishing them.
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    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C9H13NO3 View Post
    prisons are far too luxurious. I don't think forcing someone to sit in a cell with nothing inside but a bed and a toilet and giving them an hour of excercise per day is cruel or unusual. No TV, no smoking, no happiness. No personal space. It's almost like nowadays we are just trying to remove them from society without actually punishing them.
    +1 they don't get reformed either; just look at the recidivism, they come out better trained criminals.
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    What with the forcible sodomy and the random shankings, it's just like Club Med.

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    Like Hopyard said apply Justice from 200 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    This might sound cruel and mean. I say we take the rapist, murderers and child molesters and have a turkey shoot, we'll cut the population down by 57,000 easily I would expect.

    Ok, that's extreme maybe, but I'm not sorry.

    Which means just hang or shoot by firing squad the "rapist, murderers and child molesters".

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There are lots of folks in prisons who could do OK in less restrictive setting.
    They were in a less restrictive setting before they went to prison.

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