Iowa National Guard to practice house to house gun searches!! (MERGED)

[jamierah]

The truth of the matter is people have their constitutional rights infringed upon on a daily basis. As long as they are isolated incidents that get a reaction from the public and get laws changed/amended with proper reparations to the injured parties and reprimand/punishment to the person(s) involved, it's not a bad thing it's how our government and legal system work. That being said when it stops being isolated and becomes systematic we need to be concerned. The problem is its hard to tell where the change is until its to late.

If the gov. does something that we perceive as wrong non-constitutional we need to say something to let the leaders know that we are watching and we are drawing a line in the sand right here and now. Political pressure by the sounds of it forced the Iowa Nat Guard to change their plans that's good the time they don't bow to overwhelming public pressure is the time to be concerned.

Do we need to be paranoid YES, should we be stockpiling firearms and ammo MAYBE, should we be planning for armed resistance NOT YET, should we be inundating our state legislators, governors, attorney generals, senators, representatives, the president and even the news media with our concerns about the direction of our country YES

The thing to remember is all these people are just that people they may be part of the evil socialist plot, the girl scouts or the dark side of the force. But they are people and they will look out for themselves first. If we put up a show of political force they want to get reelected and not have to give up their cushy gov. jobs. Look what results happened with the Wyoming Reciprocity thread, some determined individuals that don't even live in the state made a positive change.

We need to stop being reactive and wringing our hand and worrying about the future and work on changing the future by being proactive.
Lets hammer the NRA, GOA and others to work with friendly politician to get some preemption laws passed to protect our rights.

That's my vent I'll get of my

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[pgrass101]

Like the Canadians? They have no doig in the fight.

Are you seriously saying that Canada is going to send armed troops into the US? Do you know that the US and Canada have the longest undefended border in the world right?

The reason I bring this up in that the US Border patrol has about 18,000 employees and can not secure the Mexican border and you think that Canada sending its entire 62,000 man Armed forces (yep that is it's army, navy and airforce all togehter) into the US will secure it? Do you really think that the citizens of Canada would allow such a thing to happen?

I hear this talk about the UN coming into the US or the US Armed forces imposing martial law and I have to laugh.

Think about the logistics involved if nothing else, do you not realize how absurd that sounds on just the fesibility alone?

I find it interesting that the folks on here who have no problem with this are mostly military. Am I wrong in that assesment?

It is probably because most of the military and ex military members here have a clue to what is involved and what the US military will and will not do.

[Sticks]

Are you seriously saying that Canada is going to send armed troops into the US? Do you know that the US and Canada have the longest undefended border in the world right?

The reason I bring this up in that the US Border patrol has about 18,000 employees and can not secure the Mexican border and you think that Canada sending its entire 62,000 man Armed forces (yep that is it's army, navy and airforce all togehter) into the US will secure it? Do you really think that the citizens of Canada would allow such a thing to happen?

Yes (insofar as the northern border states) and yes, they have been sheepatized (new word?) as badly as the UK.\

I hear this talk about the UN coming into the US or the US Armed forces imposing martial law and I have to laugh.

Think about the logistics involved if nothing else, do you not realize how absurd that sounds on just the fesibility alone?

I have thought about it. Between the UN, National Guard, Volunteers (brady bunch types) LEO agencies...it is doable. Impossible to do an overnight nation wide hit, but I am quite sure the people on the hill have also though about this in detail, and have a pretty color coded map of priority areas to secure first, then move on. WI, IL, NY, CA, WY, UT, NV for example will be low on the list. Low population, low per capita of guns per house, ect.

And as I stated earlier, first the distributors and retailers, and the top 4473 owners, then on down the list. Meanwhile the "Voluntary turn 'em in" will be going on.

It is probably because most of the military and ex military members here have a clue to what is involved and what the US military will and will not do.

The military will follow orders, regardless of what those orders are. I for one doubt that the US military agencies will get 100% cooperation from the troops if it comes down to firing upon unarmed citizens, but return fire, and trashing houses is not out of the question, likewise with the LEO agencies, but they will get enough.

If, may the gods help us, it does come to that, then the question will arise as to what the US military and National Guard will do if everything goes Tango Uniform and an all out armed uprising starts.

Will 100% of the military stand by the Govt, or grow a brain and stand by the people to protect the freedoms the fathers established for us?

That will make things for the Canadians and UN a bit dicey. Meanwhile the world will watch in morbid fascination as the big bully on the block folds in upon itself.

[Daddy Warcrimes]

Allow me to put a slightly different spin on this:

These Iowa NG troops know they're going overseas. Some of them have been there before, some haven't.

The guys that have been want to train up the guys who haven't, that way the new guys have a better chance of coming back alive.

Most of the guys live right there in Arcadia. Most of the rest live within 50 miles.

The residents of Arcadia have a very real interest in helping prepare these Soldiers because they are their friends family and neighbors.

The Army strives for the most realistic training it can get with the resources it has.

So why didn't they go to a training facility with professional OPFOR and an environment tailored to their specific mission?

Answer: they don't have the money. Moving a company on several days of active duty costs a lot, probably hundreds of thousands. Driving downtown on drill weekend costs the same as any other drill weekend.

My ultimate assessment is this isn't the idea of the fed, or the UN, or the dems, the repubs, the commies, or the crab people. This is the idea of a couple old crusty sergeants who just want their men to come home alive.

[SelfDefense]

I have thought about it. Between the UN, National Guard, Volunteers (brady bunch types) LEO agencies...it is doable. Impossible to do an overnight nation wide hit, but I am quite sure the people on the hill have also though about this in detail, and have a pretty color coded map of priority areas to secure first, then move on.

This stuff is better than the fantasies on the SciFi channel. Can you just imagine the 'brady bunch types' in commando gear with assault rifles on their shoulders? I thought they were afraid of guns and now it is suggested that they will be roving bands of para military, under the direction of UN. This is rich!

Wait! I have to run. I am getting a telepathic message from aliens that just landed in the parking lot.

[Sticks]

This stuff is better than the fantasies on the SciFi channel. Can you just imagine the 'brady bunch types' in commando gear with assault rifles on their shoulders? I thought they were afraid of guns and now it is suggested that they will be roving bands of para military, under the direction of UN. This is rich!

Wait! I have to run. I am getting a telepathic message from aliens that just landed in the parking lot.

SelfDefense - I never said the the volunteers would be armed You put that fantasy together.

I'll wager if you ask one (rabid anti or actual BB member) "If you were given the opportunity to assist LEO or military agencies in a door to door gun confiscation from owners, would you help?" you would get an enthusiastic "Hell ya! I would do anything to get the guns out of the hands of anyone to keep my children and my family safe." 1 maybe 2 UN or LEO, 4 volunteers to tear apart your house.

They may irrationally fear guns, but the very sight of one does not make them wet themselves, faint, or jump up on a chair screaming. They have accepted the fact that people kill people...with guns. Take away the guns, people will stop getting killed.

Have the ET's buy you a nice dinner tonight.

[SelfDefense]

SelfDefense - I never said the the volunteers would be armed You put that fantasy together.

They would just e observers then.

I'll wager if you ask one (rabid anti or actual BB member) "If you were given the opportunity to assist LEO or military agencies in a door to door gun confiscation from owners, would you help?" you would get an enthusiastic "Hell ya! I would do anything to get the guns out of the hands of anyone to keep my children and my family safe." 1 maybe 2 UN or LEO, 4 volunteers to tear apart your house.

Sp, now they are tearing our houses apart as well as confiscating weapons? It gets better and better.

They may irrationally fear guns, but the very sight of one does not make them wet themselves, faint, or jump up on a chair screaming.

I am far more concerned with the irrational fear of gun confiscation. I think that gives far more ammunition to those that are trying to persuade the opposition that gun owners are irresponsible.

Have the ET's buy you a nice dinner tonight.

False alarm. The message was for their friends. I intercepted it by mistake.

[Sticks]

...Sp, now they are tearing our houses apart as well as confiscating weapons? It gets better and better.

They are told that there are 10 guns in that house (documented purchases), and can't find any. You think they are going to shrug their shoulders and say, oh well.

WOW. I bet the drug dealers wished it worked that way when the DEA shows up looking for their stash.

I am far more concerned with the irrational fear of gun confiscation. I think that gives far more ammunition to those that are trying to persuade the opposition that gun owners are irresponsible.

How do you equate a legitimate concern of the government performing such an act makes us irresponsible?

False alarm. The message was for their friends. I intercepted it by mistake.

You should get your antenne tuned.

[SelfDefense]

They are told that there are 10 guns in that house (documented purchases), and can't find any. You think they are going to shrug their shoulders and say, oh well.

I don't think there is a shred of reality in that hypothetical. Guns are legal (mostly.) Drugs are not. The Federal government has limited powers and specific prohibitions. Among thos are exactly the scenarios you fear.

How do you equate a legitimate concern of the government performing such an act makes us irresponsible?

I said irrational fears might lead to the opposition having ammuntion to consider us irresponsible. Be always vigilant. Crossing the line between vigilance and paranoia hurts our cause.

You should get your antenne tuned.

Done.

[rottkeeper]

Originally Posted by Sticks]
They are told that there are 10 guns in that house (documented purchases), and can't find any. You think they are going to shrug their shoulders and say, oh well.

I don't think there is a shred of reality in that hypothetical. Guns are legal (mostly.) .

Do you think they will except the honor system? Get real, if it happens they will not care about turning over you home.

[Sticks]

I don't think there is a shred of reality in that hypothetical. Guns are legal (mostly.) Drugs are not. The Federal government has limited powers and specific prohibitions. Among thos are exactly the scenarios you fear.

That is the whole point. If a gun grab happens, then by golly, they must have made them illegal. I am pretty sure that is how it happened in the UK, Australia, and at least one province in Canada.

I said irrational fears might lead to the opposition having ammuntion to consider us irresponsible. Be always vigilant. Crossing the line between vigilance and paranoia hurts our cause.

They already consider us irresponsible just by the fact we own a gun. Right on the verge of a killing spree we are.

Done.

As am I

[SelfDefense]

That is the whole point. If a gun grab happens, then by golly, they must have made them illegal. I am pretty sure that is how it happened in the UK, Australia, and at least one province in Canada.

Those countries do not have a Constitution. The Federal government cannot and will not make guns illegal. It will never happen.

[HotGuns]

NEVER is a long time.

I sincerely hope that you are correct.

The History of the world proves otherwise.

[mcp1810]

Those countries do not have a Constitution. The Federal government cannot and will not make guns illegal. It will never happen.

I don't know about that....... Historically governments ( including our own) have been pretty successful doing things people said they "cannot and will not" do.

[mlr1m]

Those countries do not have a Constitution. The Federal government cannot and will not make guns illegal. It will never happen.

They can make them so hard to get and expensive that no ordinary citizen can afford to own one. They can also put extreme qualifications on citizens that wish to purchase one.

Michael