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U.S. Gun Trial Echoes in Drug-Torn Mexico

2K views 23 replies 18 participants last post by  armado 
#1 ·
A lot of questionable comments in here, as well as bad facts.

U.S. Gun Trial Echoes in Drug-Torn Mexico

By JOEL MILLMAN

PHOENIX -- This week, an Arizona gun shop goes on trial in state court in what law-enforcement officials are calling a landmark case against gun dealers who sell weapons that end up in the hands of Mexican drug cartels, fueling horrific violence south of the border that killed more than 6,000 people last year.

X-Caliber Guns LLC, is accused of knowingly selling hundreds of weapons, mostly AK-47s, to buyers who were posing as fronts for Mexican drug gangs. The gun store's owner, 47-year-old George Iknadosian, has maintained his innocence in court filings.

While the U.S. has long pressed Mexico to stop the flow of illegal drugs such as cocaine from crossing the border heading north, Mexico has complained that the U.S. doesn't stop the flow of guns heading south. Mexican and U.S. officials estimate that more than 90% of the weapons used by Mexican drug cartels come from the U.S.


Mexican soldiers arrived in the border city of Ciudad Juarez on Sunday, to confront drug-trafficking cartels in the country's most violent region. Mexican and U.S. officials estimate that more than 90% of weapons used by Mexican drug cartels come from the U.S.

Consider what happened last year in the Mexican border city of Nogales. The chief of the Sonora state anti-drug unit, Juan Manuel Pavón, was murdered by cartel hit men, just hours after attending a U.S. seminar on how to resist the tide of American firearms surging into Mexico. Several weapons linked to the crime traced back to X-Caliber Guns.

"The three highest priorities for me in terms of U.S. cooperation in the drugs war are these: guns, guns, guns," Mexican Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora said in a recent interview with The Wall Street Journal. "These drug groups intimidate society and government because of their firepower. And their firepower comes from the U.S."

No one knows how many weapons cross the border into Mexico each year. Unlike contraband drugs, which are consumed, contraband guns "remain in circulation until they are captured," says Terry Goddard, the Arizona Attorney General bringing the case against X-Caliber Guns.

The number of U.S. guns in Mexico is growing. The Justice Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, or ATF, says more than 7,700 guns sold in America were traced to Mexico in the fiscal year ending last September. That's twice the 3,300 recorded the previous year and more than triple the 2,100 traced the year before that.

U.S. officials acknowledge that U.S. gun laws are partly to blame. The 1994 ban on the sale of assault weapons like AK-47s in the U.S. led to a decrease of such weapons south of the border. But the ban expired in 2004, and the numbers in Mexico spiked. Last week, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said the Obama administration would seek to reinstate the ban. Contributing to the problem is the fact that Mexico's customs control is famously weak, and authorities rarely check inbound traffic from the U.S.

Meanwhile, Mexican drug gangs are stocking up on deadlier weapons. ATF officials say they have registered more purchases of high-powered FN Herstal rifles and pistols -- the Belgian-made weapon called "matapolicias" in Mexico, or "cop killers," for their ability to fire through body armor. Such items are sold in hundreds of Arizona gun shops, or by private owners advertising online.

Although U.S. gun laws generally forbid the sale of weapons to noncitizens, the X-Caliber case shows how Mexican purchasers used intermediaries -- or "straw buyers" -- to flout the rules.

The scheme, according to the prosecution, was simple: The buyers, usually 19- to 22-year-old U.S. citizens with no police record, declared that the firearm was for personal use, but instead passed it along to an associate of a Mexican cartel. The buyer filled out a standard form used by the ATF to track firearms. Lying on the form is punishable by up to 10 years in prison. But ATF agents here say buyers in the X-Caliber case were paid a fee to run that risk -- up to $100 on each transaction.

Gun shops generally rely on ATF recordkeeping to check them before selling to the wrong buyer. Ken Logan, a manager at the Shooters World gun store in Phoenix says the ATF form, once approved after being checked against a national data base, relieves the store of responsibility. "The ATF says 'yea' or 'nay,' on who I can sell a gun to," he says.

Gun stores run the risk of lawsuits if they're deemed to be "profiling" -- refusing to sell guns to young Latinos, for instance. Mr. Logan concedes he has seen men enter gun stores, point out to a girlfriend what weapon they should buy, and leave. The girlfriend fills out the form, attesting the firearm is for her personal use.

Getting bullets is even easier. Gun dealers here must report anyone purchasing more than one handgun during a single five-day period, but there is no restriction on ammunition. Last Christmas Eve, salesmen at Cabela's Sporting Goods store in Phoenix were surprised when two Hispanic men bought 24,000 rounds of 5.7 caliber bullets -- the same caliber used in FN "cop killers." They paid in cash -- more than $10,000. When the buyers were seen loading their purchase into a car with Mexican license plates, store managers summoned police. Authorities found 12 FN rifles and three "cop killer" handguns.

Police arrested the buyers, but only because they were foreign nationals, thus forbidden from possessing arms in the U.S.

The murder of Mr. Pavón last year illustrates how Arizona's gun-friendly culture contributes to mayhem in Mexico. Last October, the men under Mr. Pavón's command fought gangs of narco-pistoleros in gun battles across the state. On October 24, a caravan of heavily armed assassins descended on Nogales, only to be repelled, leaving 10 gunmen dead. A week later, they attacked a police substation about a mile from the U.S. border crossing.

Days later, Mr. Pavón was in Arizona for consultations with U.S. officials.

At a farewell picnic at a federal shooting range in Tucson, the Mexican policeman was invited to test fire a powerful American weapon that has been surfacing lately in the narco-gangs' arsenals: the 50 caliber Barrett rifle, powerful enough to pierce a tank's armor.

"We had a shootout," recalls Mr. Newell, the ATF agent. "He won."

The following night, Commander Pavón was ambushed as he entered a Nogales hotel.
 
#3 ·
Well I gotta say that when a guy points out a gun for a girlfriend to buy for him even tho she signs the forms If he even thinks it's a straw purchase he needs to decline the sale,and I believe that is why he is in trouble,I will bet the ATF set up a sting where they made it pretty clear it was a straw purchase and he went ahead with the sale anyway.I might be wrong but sumpin tells me otherwise.If in fact they are trying to go after him because his guns are turning up in Mexico then that's BS they should go after the buyers and make examples out of them by throwing em in prison for the max
 
#5 ·
Since when does our Constitution say we must give up our RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS just because another country is tearing itself down with drug cartels.........:comeandgetsome:
 
#8 ·
Right on.

:banghead:
 
#6 ·
...Mexican purchasers used intermediaries -- or "straw buyers" -- to flout the rules.
And I suppose these new rules are going to be magically "unfloutable"?

News Flash for these folks: Criminals don't obey the law.
 
#7 ·
Why is it so easy for a Mexican national to buy 24,000 rounds and I can't even find a box of 50?
 
#9 ·
24,000 rds



Patti: You are absolutely right. Something is wrong with the picture.

Assuming the story is correct and accurate about the number of rounds sold, just think about that. Where did the supply come from? How was it obtained? Why was it sold to a Mexican National?

Your question raises a set of real interesting points, and not about supply and demand; about legal sales v those backed by possible bribery and corruption; maybe about re-sale of stolen ammo.

I'd think that even an active legitimate gun store would have to scramble to find 24,000 rounds of anything. Maybe Walmart can order that much for a regional supply and distribution center, but it sure seems over the top for your neighborhood gun dealer--even Cabelas. Didn't know they were in the ammo dump biz.

Something doesn't pass the sniff test here. Oh, and how many dollars would have to have been paid out to buy those 24,000 rnds?

You suppose they paid cash?
 
#10 ·
So, let me see if I have this right.

If they ban their sale here, we can go to Mexico and buy some of them back ????

And prices here are up due to availability ?? HEY >>>>>> you can't buy our guns.... we need to keep those folks out of here..... buying US weapons illegally.

And, so we arrest the guy selling them ?? What about the guy's buying them that are here illegally... what happens to them... we just send them back ?
 
#11 ·
If firearms were legal and available to law abiding Mexican citizens, wouldn't they be better able to defend themselves? And if firearms were made illegal or tightly regulated in the US wouldn't the cartels get weapons through their southern border or via sea lanes from Colombia, Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador or some other country? Disarming a law abiding American citizen will only make all Americans less free, and will not make Mexicans more safe. I have heard some Mexican politicians say that the US should legalize drugs to take the profit out of criminal enterprise, but I suggest that the Mexican government allow their citizens the ability to defend themselves. Most Mexicans distrust the military and especially the police, and can do nothing more that duck when the bullets start flying. I can think of no greater travesty than for American citizens to find themselves in the same helpless, disarmed state. I will not give up my weapons to appease the the desires of another sovereign nation.
 
#14 ·
There are Federal banking and cash reporting statutes (for taxes) that require special forms to be filled out for receipts of more than $10,000 in cash too. I wonder if that was completed?
 
#15 ·
I read the other day in a LEO bulletin that the mexican drug cartel laundered more than 17 billion dollars in the U.S. in the last to years. Now assuming they got some of their guns here.........17 billion dollars will get you guns from anywhere is the world.
 
#16 ·
Case Is Dismissed on Gun Sales to Mexico

Here's the "Answer" today.......

An Arizona court on Wednesday dismissed the case against a gun-store owner accused of looking the other way while front men purchased weapons to deliver to Mexico's drug cartels.

The trial, which began earlier this month, had been heralded as an example of U.S. authorities working to stanch the flow of weapons to Mexico, where a recent war among drug gangs is believed to have killed more than 6,000 people.



The case was dismissed against George Iknadosian, above, arrested on charges of knowingly selling guns to traffickers smuggling arms into Mexico.

At the heart of the case was the X-Caliber gun store, where prosecutors alleged more than 700 high-powered rifles were sold to purchasers whom the owner, 47-year-old George Iknadosian, should have known were acting as so-called straw buyers for Mexican customers. Sales of most weapons to non-U.S. citizens north of the border are severely constrained, as is gun possession by civilians in Mexico.

To get around those restrictions, Arizona officials alleged, Mr. Iknadosian allowed Arizonans with clean criminal records to buy weapons they would resell in Mexico, first by falsifying forms attesting that the firearms were for the purchasers' personal use. Witnesses in the case included several of these alleged straw buyers, who have pleaded guilty to charges that bring a penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment.

Yet in dismissing the 21 counts against Mr. Iknadosian, Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Robert Gottsfield ruled that the evidence prosecutors presented wasn't "material," and therefore didn't support charges against the defendant.

"The state's case is based upon testimony of individuals who [alleged]...that they were the actual purchaser of the firearms when they were not," Judge Gottsfield wrote. He then indicated that such testimony, by itself, failed to establish that any additional unlawful conduct transpired.

"There is no proof whatsoever that any prohibited possessor ended up with the firearm," the judge said.

To be considered "material," he explained, testimony about falsifying government forms must further demonstrate that the act "resulted in an unlawful person ending up with the guns, which has not been proven."



George Iknadosian's closed shop, X-Caliber Guns in Phoenix, was deserted in January.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, briefing reporters at the agency's Washington headquarters Wednesday, declined to comment on the ruling.

State and federal authorities, including a task force supervised by the Phoenix office of the U.S. Department of Justice's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, worked for 11 months with local police building a case against X-Caliber. According to law-enforcement officials in Phoenix, the investigation included sending undercover agents posing as buyers to Mr. Iknadosian's shop, where agents not only purchased weapons, but boasted of plans to resell them in Mexico.

Authorities also relentlessly publicized the link between X-Caliber and Mexican drug cartels by claiming weapons purchased in Mr. Iknadosian's store had been recovered at Mexican crime scenes. One special weapon -- a handgun inlaid with $35,000 worth of diamonds -- purportedly was captured late last year after the assassination of a top Mexican policeman.

"We are all taking this pretty hard," said Anne Hilby, spokeswoman for Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard. Mr. Goddard released a statement disagreeing with Judge Gottsfield's analysis of the case, adding, "We are reviewing the ruling to determine how best to respond."

Messages left for Mr. Iknadosian's attorney and at the defendant's home weren't returned.
 
#17 ·
Here's the "Answer" today.......
:congrats:


U.S. officials acknowledge that U.S. gun laws are partly to blame. The 1994 ban on the sale of assault weapons like AK-47s in the U.S. led to a decrease of such weapons south of the border. But the ban expired in 2004, and the numbers in Mexico spiked. Last week, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said the Obama administration would seek to reinstate the ban. Contributing to the problem is the fact that Mexico's customs control is famously weak, and authorities rarely check inbound traffic from the U.S.
hmmmm....let me get this right, our side of the border isn't sealed and secured....obviously their side of the border isn't sealed and secured...well CRAP....lets blame guns for the problems, never mind the thugs, gangsters, and cartels, I'm sure they'd be little angels without a gun in their hand

newsflash: I could still buy an AR or AK during the ban, but it was without the dreaded and deadly bayonet lug and collapsible stock....morons
 
#18 ·
U.S. Gun Trial Echoes in Drug-Torn Mexico By JOEL MILLMAN said:
Mexican and U.S. officials estimate that more than 90% of the weapons used by Mexican drug cartels come from the U.S.
It was reported the other day (I believe by Wayne LaPierre on Glenn Beck) that BATFE officials testified before congress last week and stated they can not substantiate that figure, yet members of congress keep telling the masses that 90% of the guns going to Mexico are from the U.S.

LaPierre also went on to say that a lot of the weapons from the U.S. were sold to the legitimate Mexican Government.

If the Mexican Government can not keep track of the weapons they buy from the U.S., it is not the fault of U.S. arms dealers!

The spreading of lies and rumors is how they are going to justify pushing through more gun control regulation. The public should be outraged!
 
#21 ·
how many dollars would have to have been paid out to buy those 24,000 rnds?
Cabela's (online) lists 1000rds of FNH 5.7x28 bulk ammo for $375/1000.

You suppose they paid cash?
$375 * 24 = $9000.

A couple of notes:

$9K keeps it under the $10K radar.

Does Cabela's or any other "corner gun store" carry the hotter, hardened-core varieties that are available to law enforcement and military?

If only available to cops/military, then the hot/heavy variants would be known as "citizen killers," right?
 
#22 ·
I for one can believe that 60-70% of the weapons do come from the U.S.! But not from civilian sales though!

90% of the guns are most likely of U.S. manufacture? We (like Russia, Cuba, etc,) flooded Central America with guns during the later half of the 20th century. But 90%, come on! Maybe 60-70%, yes, I can believe that.

I believe that is where the vast majority come from, why would they want semi-auto when they can get fully-automatic firearms from Latin-America? Or as said, other hot spots in the world!

They will not supply serial numbers to these guns that are coming from U.S. sales, why do you ask? Because they are most likely from the Mexican military or Police forces!

Boy, in the article, they really do drive home about the FN "cop-killer" pistol! They sure do love buzz-words don't they? What was it, 3 times in the story? Glad they don't have an agenda!!!
 
#23 ·
U.S. Gun Trial Echoes in Drug-Torn Mexico
The moment a city goes to Hades, the right and proper thing to do is bolster the defenses and be prepared to defend against the spillover from the cesspool.

And yet, the gun-grabbers would have us believe, when an entire neighboring country goes down the toilet, defending against that spillover suddenly becomes verboten and rising up to defend our downtrodden brothers (whom we're supposedly helping to arm) becomes a patriotic duty. Atlas Shrugged, anyone?

The terrorists in their midst, drug dealers supreme, are combining with the cancer of corrupted officialdom to create a cesspool of national proportions. The spillover is killing innocents. Damn the politics: defense against it is righteous and proper.
 
#24 ·
Mexican citizens need to be able to arm and protect themselves. Disarming American Citizens will put us in the same dangers that Mexicans find themselves in now, at the mercy of criminals, and police and soldiers that they don't trust!
 
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