MONTANA, Sheriff Yellowstone County

MONTANA, Sheriff Yellowstone County

This is a discussion on MONTANA, Sheriff Yellowstone County within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; March 4, 2009 Sheriff Chuck Maxwell Yellowstone County Sheriff's Office 219 N. 26th St. Billings, Montana 59101 Dear Sheriff Maxwell, You may not be aware ...

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  1. #1
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    MONTANA, Sheriff Yellowstone County

    March 4, 2009

    Sheriff Chuck Maxwell
    Yellowstone County Sheriff's Office
    219 N. 26th St.
    Billings, Montana 59101

    Dear Sheriff Maxwell,

    You may not be aware that your staff at the YCSO have implemented what is effectively a rationing system for issuing concealed weapon permits (CWP) to citizens in Yellowstone County.

    About CWP applications, the YCSO Website says, "Applications will be taken on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, between the hours of 9:00am and 11:00am." Apparently your staff have implemented this provision to the effect that they will accept only one application during the designated time slot. This effectively limits the number of CWPs issued in Yellowstone County to 156 per year.

    With an estimated population of 140,000, this YCSO practice limits CWPs to about 1/10th of 1% of the citizens of Yellowstone County, far below the statewide density of CWPs issued in Montana.

    You will be aware that CWPs must be issued within 60 days of application pursuant to 45-8-321, M.C.A. The intent of the Legislature when enacting this statute in 1991 was to make CWPs freely available to qualified citizens. Citizens who have recently attempted to submit applications to the YCSO have been told that they cannot obtain an appointment to deliver their applications until August or September of 2009. This rationing is simply not consistent with the intent of Montana law.

    I hope you will direct your staff to accept all applications when citizens are ready to submit them, a process that should take about five minutes if done efficiently.

    Thank you for your cooperation in fixing this problem. Please let me know when and how a correction will be applied.

    Sincerely yours,




    Gary Marbut, President
    Author, Gun Laws of Montana

    ====================

    Gary Marbut, president
    Montana Shooting Sports Association
    Montana Shooting Sports Association
    author, Gun Laws of Montana
    Gun Laws of Montana


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    The county needs to vote him out.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    That is totally ridiculous,I'm glad in Tx It is handled by DPS and they accept applications thru the mail
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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    After the pressure the guys put on Wyoming about their reciprocity, shouldn't it be easier to lean on this guy in Montana a bit? Especially considering the recent stories I've read here about how pro 2A Montana is.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    We have a couple of counties in Colorado that have started the same "rationing" as well. One county is "By appointment only" to submit your application, and are booked through June. READ - specific time and date to turn in your application and get your fingerprints...that's all.
    Sticks

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    We have a couple of counties in Colorado that have started the same "rationing" as well. One county is "By appointment only" to submit your application, and are booked through June. READ - specific time and date to turn in your application and get your fingerprints...that's all.
    That's an interesting work around the law. They are required to turn applications around in a specific amount of time (6weeks)??? Maybe I'm way off. But by not allowing people to submit apps, they don't have to turn them around.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array BruceGibson's Avatar
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    Well done on Gary's part. And I agree, it's time the locals vote in a new Sheriff. Generally, the problem with voting out the bad is getting someone to run against him or her. Pickin's can be slim in the "decent candidate" category.

    No opponent, no election.

  8. #8
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    "Applications will be taken on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, between the hours of 9:00am and 11:00am."
    There's nothing in Montana State law that prohibits a county Sheriff from setting schedules like this. Montana is a "shall issue" State. The county Sheriff is the issuing authority. The Sheriff must accept and process all CWP applications, so the Sheriff is well within his/her authority to designate specific times/dates for for doing this.

    Apparently your staff have implemented this provision to the effect that they will accept only one application during the designated time slot.
    Fuzzy math. How can "between the hours of 9:00am and 11:00am" be interpreted to mean that only one application will be accepted in this whole 2 hours?

    Citizens who have recently attempted to submit applications to the YCSO have been told that they cannot obtain an appointment to deliver their applications until August or September of 2009.
    If this is true, then the Sheriff has indeed exceeded his authority, but I'd like to see some specifics. How many citizens were told this, and who are they?

    We have several members on this forum who reside in the Billings, MT area, it would be interesting to get their perspective on this.

    For comparison, the Flathead County Sheriffs Office (population 84,300, county seat Kalispell) processes CWP apps only on Wednesdays, 9 to 5. Flathead County has the highest per capita rate of issuance in the State.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

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    Senior Member Array community's Avatar
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    what a jackass.
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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Document everything then scream like heck to NRA, NRA state affiliate, your elected reps, Governor, etc. Find a pro 2A lawyer and file suit ASAP.
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  11. #11
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    There's nothing in Montana State law that prohibits a county Sheriff from setting schedules like this. Montana is a "shall issue" State. The county Sheriff is the issuing authority. The Sheriff must accept and process all CWP applications, so the Sheriff is well within his/her authority to designate specific times/dates for for doing this.



    Fuzzy math. How can "between the hours of 9:00am and 11:00am" be interpreted to mean that only one application will be accepted in this whole 2 hours?



    If this is true, then the Sheriff has indeed exceeded his authority, but I'd like to see some specifics. How many citizens were told this, and who are they?

    We have several members on this forum who reside in the Billings, MT area, it would be interesting to get their perspective on this.

    For comparison, the Flathead County Sheriffs Office (population 84,300, county seat Kalispell) processes CWP apps only on Wednesdays, 9 to 5. Flathead County has the highest per capita rate of issuance in the State.
    MT counties CWP

    Per the map above, Flathead County is "behind" several other MONTANA Counties, not Number ONE.

  12. #12
    1943 - 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOGOFWAR01 View Post
    MT counties CWP

    Per the map above, Flathead County is "behind" several other MONTANA Counties, not Number ONE.
    I said per capita.

    I didn't say number one.

    Look it up.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  13. #13
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    I said per capita.

    I didn't say number one.

    Look it up.
    I know I said "not Number One" meaning by percentage of CWP's nor by total population.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOGOFWAR01 View Post
    I know I said "not Number One" meaning by percentage of CWP's nor by total population.
    You still don't understand the meaning of per capita.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    You still don't understand the meaning of per capita.
    Yes, I do.

    You are just toying, playing, and ploying with the numbers. Did you use to or do you now work for the federal government ?

    I deal with stat's, survey's, and marketing quite a bit now days, along with several undergrad and grad classes.

    MSSA Gary Marbut numbers (totals and % used in tandem) present more of a true picture of the situation. Alone your county has more CWP's than any other county; does not take into account your county population and % of CWP's are higher in other counties even though the number of CWP's is lower than your county.

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