Army Troops In Samson, Alabama (Merged)

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Thread: Army Troops In Samson, Alabama (Merged)

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    Army Troops In Samson, Alabama (Merged)

    CNSNews.com - Army Investigating How and Why Troops Were Sent Into Alabama Town After Murder Spree



    The U.S. Army has launched an inquiry into how and why active duty troops from Fort Rucker, Ala., came to be placed on the streets of Samson, Ala., during last week's murder spree in that tiny South Alabama community. The use of the troops was a possible violation of federal law.

    “On March 10, after a report of an apparent mass murder in Samson, Ala., 22 military police soldiers from Fort Rucker, Ala., along with the provost marshal, were sent to the city of Samson,” Harvey Perritt, spokesman for the U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) at Fort Monroe, Va., told CNSNews.com on Monday.

    “The purpose for sending the military police, the authority for doing so, and what duties they performed is the subject of an ongoing commander’s inquiry--directed by the commanding general of U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command, Gen. Martin Dempsey.”

    TRADOC is the headquarters command for Ft. Rucker.

    “In addition to determining the facts, this inquiry will also determine whether law, regulation and policy were followed,” Perritt added. “Until those facts are determined, it would be inappropriate to speculate or comment further.”

    Jim Stromenger, a dispatcher at the Samson Police Department, confirmed the MP’s presence in the town, telling CNSNews.com that the troops “came in to help with traffic control and to secure the crime scene”--and the department was glad for the help.

    “We’ve been getting a lot of calls,” Stromenger said. “They weren’t here to police, let me make that clear. They were here to help with traffic and to control the crime scene--so people wouldn’t trample all over (it).”

    Stromenger said the town needed help--calls had gone out to all police departments in the area.

    “We only have a five-man police department,” he told CNSNews.com. “We had officers from all surrounding areas helping out. There were a lot of streets to be blocked off and there had to be someone physically there to block them off. That’s what these MPs were doing. I don’t think they were even armed. The troops helped keep nosy people away.”

    But Stromenger said it wasn’t the Samson Police Department that called for the troops.

    “I don’t know who called Fort Rucker. But someone did. They wouldn’t have been able to come if someone hadn’t,” he added.

    Under Whose Authority?

    The troops were apparently not deployed by the request of Alabama Gov. Bob Riley -- or by the request of President Obama, as required by law.

    When contacted by CNSNews.com, the governor’s office could not confirm that the governor had requested help from the Army, and Gov. Riley's spokesman, Todd Stacy, expressed surprise when he was told that troops had been sent to the town.

    No request from President Obama, meanwhile, was issued by the White House--or the Defense Department.

    Wrongful use of federal troops inside U.S. borders is a violation of several federal laws, including one known as the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, Title 18, Section 1385 of the U.S. Code.

    “Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both,” the law states.

    David Rittgers, legal policy analyst at the Cato Institute, said there are other laws barring use of federal troops outside of federal property, as well.

    “Title 18, Section 375 of the U.S. Code is a direct restriction on military personnel, and it basically precludes any member of the army in participating in a ‘search, seizure, arrest or other similar activity, unless participation is otherwise authorized by law,’ “ Rittgers told CNSNews.com.

    “The security of a crime scene is something I think that would roll up in the category of a ‘search, seizure or other activity,’” Rittgers added.

    In addition, there is the Insurrection Act of 1808, as amended in 2007, (Title 10, Section 331 of the U.S. Code) under which the president can authorize troops “to restore order and enforce the laws of the United States” in an insurrection.

    “Whenever there is an insurrection in any State against its government, the President may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor if the legislature cannot be convened, call into federal service such of the militia of the other States, in the number requested by that State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to suppress the insurrection,” the law states.

    In 2007, Congress expanded the list to include “natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition” as situations for which the president can authorize troops, provided that “domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the state or possession are incapable of maintaining public order.”

    Congress has been clear that the use of U.S. troops for civilian police purposes is forbidden.

    “One of the statutes explicitly says that military brigs can’t even be used to detain domestic criminals,” Rittgers said. “It really is supposed to be a black and white line.”

    The U.S. Department of Justice, meanwhile, would have prosecuting authority, if any violation is deemed to have occurred. The Justice Department did not comment for this story.

    Ft. Rucker, located in Southern Alabama, is the home of Army Aviation.
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    US Military in Samson, Alabama

    I find this information very disturbing. It appears that someone authorized the use of US Military Police from Fort Rucker, Alabama to go to Samson, Alabama, the scene of the recent murder of 11 citizens by a crazed gunman. The use of troops in this situation appears to be illegal especially since neither the Governor of Alabama nor Obama's office authorized there use or so they say. I hope this isn't a preview of things to come.

    CNSNews.com - Army Investigating How and Why Troops Were Sent Into Alabama Town After Murder Spree

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uechi View Post
    Indeed it is...I just dont understand why we need the military on the strets like this. Arm the citizens!
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    The reason for that is that every sinfle one of Samson's Police officers were invoved in the shooting and well as sevearl county deputies.

    When you have a small town with 6 Police officers and 4 of them respond to a shooting and the fifth officers wife and child were killed then you are out of officers.

    Ft. Rucker has sent helicopters to tornado zones and routinely supplies troops to help the State of Alabama during diaster recovery. This usaually takes the form a a phone call from a local goverment asking fo help.

    Take you tinfoil hats off fellows this is how things are suppose to be, people helping people with out any govermental red tape involved.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

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    To be frank putting troops in Samson was authorized by who? If it was required it should have been at the request of the Governor. Maybe he did authorize it, but that's not the current story. Does Samson live in a vacuum? I assume there are plenty of towns that could have spared a Leo for a few days. In any event, why the military and when it is the military isn't it suppose to be the National Guard? You are entitled to your opinion just like I am. I resent the implication that my response somehow puts me in the lunatic fringe with the use of the word " tinfoil". Oh by the way if this is such a great and noble thing how come the Military is investigating or can any local town, city or county government official call up the closest troops anytime he feels the need? As a moderator I'd appreciate it if you state your opinions without name calling forum members that don't share your view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    Take you tinfoil hats off fellows this is how things are suppose to be, people helping people with out any govermental red tape involved.
    Two Words... Posse Comitatus

    It is illegal to use regular military troops in a law enforcement role on the civilian populous regardless of the reason. It does not apply to National Guard troops or for NBC terrorist events.
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    The military is investingating because SOP wasn't followed. The Police chief called the CO of Ft. Rucker asking for help because Ft. Rucker had the personnel and the ability to get them to the secne quickly, other agencies did show up but hours later and not in the man power that was needed immediatly.

    If the CO waited for the offical buearcary to run its course it would have been days to respond, which would not have helped.

    Plus most small Alabama towns are poor and can not afford the overtime pay to send their officers to another town nor could Samson afford to pay other towns officers.

    The US Military could do and did perform this service for free. If they did not do this then we would be complianing about the Goverments inability to help during a time of crisis
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

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    It is still a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act punishable by two years in prison for each soldier who violates the act.

    Just because they are needed and a may have been a benefit doesn't make it right!

    It's a dangerous slippery slope which the new administration is all about right now. Now they are in the processes of making legal contracts null and void voting in retroactive confiscatory taxes at a 90% tax rate over the bail out deal with AIG.

    I suppose laws mean don't anything as far as the government is concerned.

    Well one thing is for sure.... they won't be giving you any financial compensation when the come snatch your guns soon.
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    It is still a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act punishable by two years in prison for each soldier who violates the act.

    Just because they are needed and a may have been a benefit doesn't make it right!

    It's a dangerous slippery slope which the new administration is all about right now. Now they are in the processes of making legal contracts null and void voting in retroactive confiscatory taxes at a 90% tax rate over the bail out deal with AIG.

    I suppose laws mean don't anything as far as the government is concerned.

    Well one thing is for sure.... they won't be giving you any financial compensation when the come snatch your guns soon.
    Here in lies the problem...the foot in the door, so to speak.
    This is not a good situation, and make me uncomfortable...what they can get away with here may just become OK in YOUR town.
    Be very careful!
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    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Take you tinfoil hats off fellows this is how things are suppose to be, people helping people with out any govermental red tape involved.
    It has nothing to do with tin foil hats. It has everything to do with the legal system and the Posse Comitatus Act.

    I don't trust the government, especially the current batch in power, to not use this as a precedent. If that makes me the wearer of a tin foil hat, I'd argue that I'm not the only one making that fashion statement. Look at what the current administration is doing and has done to flout the Constitution, and then tell me that you feel confident that "we're only here to help".
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

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    " The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"Well-intended acts can have disastrous results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uechi View Post
    " The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"Well-intended acts can have disastrous results.
    Agreed! As former military myself - I don't want the military in the streets! I'll be armed myself and take the consiquences of protecting my own family. If the problem is how long it takes to get the proper authorization, then fix the problem.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    The military is investingating because SOP wasn't followed. The Police chief called the CO of Ft. Rucker asking for help because Ft. Rucker had the personnel and the ability to get them to the secne quickly, other agencies did show up but hours later and not in the man power that was needed immediatly.
    Where did you get the information that the Police Chief called the base requesting assistance? That is not what the story said.

    Whoever at Ft Rucker made the decision on their own to deploy the MP's to assist just ended their military career. While they may avoid a Court Martial, it will still be in their records, and they can forget getting promoted again.
    The military helping in a disaster recovery is something totally different, it is done after a request is made through proper channels and a state of disaster is declared and relief is authorized. The base commanded does not have the authority to make that decision on his own.

    But Stromenger said it wasn’t the Samson Police Department that called for the troops.

    “I don’t know who called Fort Rucker. But someone did. They wouldn’t have been able to come if someone hadn’t,” he added.

    The troops were apparently not deployed by the request of Alabama Gov. Bob Riley -- or by the request of President Obama, as required by law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uechi View Post
    " The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"Well-intended acts can have disastrous results.
    Agreed +1000. We have seen it time and time again through out history....

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    I heard that at the State Forensic laboratory, that the Chief of Police called and requested help.

    This could very well be wrong and just a rumor, or I or the person who I talked to miss heard.

    But I still fail to see how this is part of the great conspiarcy involving UN troops invading the US.

    And as far as the current POTUS violating the COTUS he still has a way to go before he beats the past administrations abuse of the COTUS. I am not a fan of either President but I do not think that this goes any higher than the local level.

    If you like govermental red-tape and the inefficancy that it causes fine. I will take my chances on marital law and trust those people with their boots actually on the ground.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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