Federal, State and City LEO - On/Off Duty Carry?

This is a discussion on Federal, State and City LEO - On/Off Duty Carry? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I hope this is the right area to post this. I decided to post here because this involves Federal and State LEO's and both on-duty ...

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Thread: Federal, State and City LEO - On/Off Duty Carry?

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Federal, State and City LEO - On/Off Duty Carry?

    I hope this is the right area to post this. I decided to post here because this involves Federal and State LEO's and both on-duty carry and off duty private handgun carry.

    At work today, I am doing a background check for a firearms sale to an officer of the FDLE (Florida Department of Law Enforcement). She is a State officer.

    It is ironic that I am on the phone, and a super long hold time, with the very department she works for (BG Checks in Florida go through FDLE).

    While on this nearly 30 minute wait for an agent we make some small talk about guns and concealed carry laws, night sights etc. She asked me, "Do law enforcement officers have to go through the 3 day wait period for purchasing handguns?".

    I told her "yes, unless they have a concealed weapons license, they are treated just like any other person purchasing a handgun. Its Federal Law, not state."

    She almost seemed to not believe me. I reiterated that any law enforcement officer, purchasing a handgun for personal use, must go through the same background check and mandatory wait period if they do not have a concealed weapons license.

    So, onto more talk she says that she doesn't have a concealed weapons license but she carries her gun (a duty gun; baby Glock) that is issued to her. She says she can carry anywhere anytime even on airlines. She said she conceals it in an ankle holster but always carries her badge displayed when on duty.

    I told her it was different for a duty gun than if it were her personal handgun. She tried to argue with me that I was wrong. I told her that, unless she is in commission of her duties that she probably wasn't supposed to carry her duty gun, lets say to Wal-Mart, on a personal shopping spree unless her commanding officer has okayed it.

    So, am I correct or am I wrong? I have studied the statutes and they seem to be a little confusing in these areas of State and Federal officers.

    I was under the impression that only Federal officers could fly airlines with a gun on their person. I was also under the impression that off-duty law enforcement officers had to abide by the same concealed carry laws as all other citizens.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    I was also under the impression that off-duty law enforcement officers had to abide by the same concealed carry laws as all other citizens.
    You may what to check out HR 218: The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004

    Quote Originally Posted by HR 218
    `(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

    `(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

    `(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

    `(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

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    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Blackeagle, you beat me to it.

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    You may what to check out HR 218: The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004

    Originally Posted by HR 218
    `(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

    `(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

    `(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

    `(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.
    I understand this. It also says that the officer has to carry the identification required in subsection (d)

    I am speaking in terms of not having the identification with them. I also assume that most officers always have their LEO identification with them?

    This does not discuss airline transportation that I can see.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    She asked me, "Do law enforcement officers have to go through the 3 day wait period for purchasing handguns?".

    I told her "yes, unless they have a concealed weapons license, they are treated just like any other person purchasing a handgun. Its Federal Law, not state."

    Nope, not federal law. It's your state's law. There is no federal waiting period.


    I told her it was different for a duty gun than if it were her personal handgun. She tried to argue with me that I was wrong. I told her that, unless she is in commission of her duties that she probably wasn't supposed to carry her duty gun, lets say to Wal-Mart, on a personal shopping spree unless her commanding officer has okayed it.


    Nope again. She is right. She can carry any gun off duty at any time, even into Walmart. Does not have to be her issued duty gun. In fact most depts don't issue guns but require their officers to buy their own. Neither does she have to be on duty. That's covered by state statute and LEOSA.

    I was under the impression that only Federal officers could fly airlines with a gun on their person.

    Once more Nope. Any LEO can fly armed provided they meet the requirements which include having the training course, the specified need, and authorization letter from their dept.

    I was also under the impression that off-duty law enforcement officers had to abide by the same concealed carry laws as all other citizens.

    4th Nope. The statute provided by others, known as LEOSA of 2004, has only 2 restrictions. The government, which includes state and local governments, can prohibit the carrying on government property. The other restriction is a property owner can prohibit on their property.
    That is different than laws applying to concealed carry laws where the government can prohibit CCW in places such as bars. For LEOs and qualified retired LEOs under LEOSA unless the government owns the bar then they cannot prohibit carrying in that bar. Only the bar owner can prohibit them.

    I understand this. It also says that the officer has to carry the identification required in subsection (d)
    That ID is their commission card, not CCW license. You made no mention of her not having her issued ID card. For LEOSA she doesn't need a CCW license.
    183 FBINA

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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    It is indeed a bit more involved than simply walking onto the plane, but local and state LEOs can indeed carry on airplanes, under certain conditions. My agency's academy offers the extra training needed to board a plane with a firearm.

    As for carry when out and about, LEOSA does not require that the individual weapon be one's duty weapon, whether issued or not. It satisfies LEOSA that the weapon be of the same type with which one has qual'ed. An agency may require that its officers only carry an individual, specific weapon if the officer has fired a qual course with that individual, specific weapon, but that is a policy matter between the officer and the employing agency.

    It is quite true that an LEO must undergo the NICS check, unless he/she has a CC license/permit, and his/her state's carry licensing system has been deemed an acceptable alternative to the NICS check. Localities and states, of course, may have additional burdens that must be met.

    FWIW, it is NOT true that all federal officers can fly on airplanes with firearms, or can carry under LEOSA. It depends upon their job descriptions. One very well-known agency's officers can only carry off the clock if they have local carry licenses/permits.

    Edited to add: I will not be more specific for OPSEC reasons.
    Last edited by Rexster; April 18th, 2009 at 10:52 PM.

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Great answers! Thanks to all that have participated.

    I just wanted to make sure of what I was supposed to do in the case of a LEO purchasing a handgun from our store. That hasn't happened so far while I was working but it probably will.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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    I'll second ispcapt's post. Since he took to time to type it all out, I wont bother doing it again.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    Hey Tally XD, I think I know you. Atleast you knew that CC ment no 3 day waiting period for me. The other guy we delt with kept trying to tell me I had to wait 3 days even though I have a CCW. For some reason he thought because he had a badge and had to wait ment I had to wait too as a CC.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    ispcapt is the recognized expert on all things LEOSA.

    He, or she, did such a good job responding to your original post that IMO no more need be said.

    Biker

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    Yep, that pretty well covers it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    I'm claim no expert in it. I just ended up having to do a bit of work on the project once it was passed. It was one of those "other duties as assigned" due to my job and having to sit in far too many boring meetings.
    183 FBINA

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I'm glad you got some straight answers there, I could not have answered them all.

    So what sauce are you going to have with that crow when she comes back for her gun?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I'm glad you got some straight answers there, I could not have answered them all.

    So what sauce are you going to have with that crow when she comes back for her gun?
    I won't be eating any crow. And, she purchased a shotgun so it went with her at that time

    Also found out that off duty officers must conceal their weapons unless their badges are displayed. And, learned that not all LEO can jump on a plane with their weapons. So, the only thing I was really incorrect on was "wait period" and CCW license requirement.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerriLi View Post
    Hey Tally XD, I think I know you. Atleast you knew that CC ment no 3 day waiting period for me. The other guy we delt with kept trying to tell me I had to wait 3 days even though I have a CCW. For some reason he thought because he had a badge and had to wait ment I had to wait too as a CC.
    What guy with a badge? What store were you shopping at and in what city?
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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