The Veterans Second Amendment Protection Act

The Veterans Second Amendment Protection Act

This is a discussion on The Veterans Second Amendment Protection Act within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Veterans Report - Bill Protects Gun Ownership Bill Protects Gun Ownership Week of April 20, 2009 The Federal Gun Control Act currently prohibits the sale ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Chroode's Avatar
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    Thumbs up The Veterans Second Amendment Protection Act

    Veterans Report - Bill Protects Gun Ownership

    Bill Protects Gun Ownership
    Week of April 20, 2009

    The Federal Gun Control Act currently prohibits the sale of firearms to people who are "adjudicated as a mentally defective." The Veterans Second Amendment Protection Act, Bill S 669, would prevent veterans who are deemed mentally incompetent, or experiencing an extended loss of consciousness from losing the right to own a gun.

    How do you feel about this action? Let your public officials know how you feel!

    Click on this link, scroll down and fill out the automated form to send to your representatives

    Military.com Legislative Center


  2. #2
    Member Array Uechi's Avatar
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    If you are mentally incompetent I don't care who you are no gun! The problem is that the use of the words " Insane or Mentally incompetent " have been used with great vigor by totalitarian governents to silence the opposition and put them in a Gulag. The US is no way near anything like this, but it is important that Ameicans all be vigilant to prevent any abuses of these terms

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    The problem is once declared mental...always mental. That I think is wrong.

    That being said...I do not think this bill has a prayer. Especially in light of the very public shootings. I would not vote for it as it stands.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    Based on experience from my military career (medic), I think these vets should be granted their 2A rights depending on their individual circumstances and mental condition.

    A vet that had a minor brain injury in combat may be able to defend his home with a shot gun, while his buddy whom was in the same incident and did not suffer physical injury, may be too traumatized and not have the mental capacity to use the proper judgment with a firearm.

    IMO, it should be handled case-by-case. Just my opinion...
    Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC!!!
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    There are numerous ailments which can be misdiagnosed or result a physician inadvertently poisoning one medical records with comments or opinions about one's mental condition. Once such a remark appears in medical records, these comments get perpetuated into the medical records by subsequent medical history entries. As an attorney I usually discourage veterans from seeking mental evaluations or treatment for mental problems if it can be avoided. This includes evaluations for PTSD. I had one client to lose his top secret clearance, and hence his job, because he underwent a PTSD evaluation at the Veterans Administration hospital.

    After 39 years of practice, it is my opinion that a wise person will avoid subjecting himself to anything that may result in the contamination of his medical records. The risk is everything from job loss to loss of the right the purchase a firearm or hold a concealed carry permit.

    I regret saying all of this, but that is life.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    There are numerous ailments which can be misdiagnosed or result a physician inadvertently poisoning one medical records with comments or opinions about one's mental condition. Once such a remark appears in medical records, these comments get perpetuated into the medical records by subsequent medical history entries. As an attorney I usually discourage veterans from seeking mental evaluations or treatment for mental problems if it can be avoided. This includes evaluations for PTSD. I had one client to lose his top secret clearance, and hence his job, because he underwent a PTSD evaluation at the Veterans Administration hospital.

    After 39 years of practice, it is my opinion that a wise person will avoid subjecting himself to anything that may result in the contamination of his medical records. The risk is everything from job loss to loss of the right the purchase a firearm or hold a concealed carry permit.

    I regret saying all of this, but that is life.

    +1 Yup.
    Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC!!!
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  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    There are numerous ailments which can be misdiagnosed or result a physician inadvertently poisoning one medical records with comments or opinions about one's mental condition. Once such a remark appears in medical records, these comments get perpetuated into the medical records by subsequent medical history entries. As an attorney I usually discourage veterans from seeking mental evaluations or treatment for mental problems if it can be avoided. This includes evaluations for PTSD. I had one client to lose his top secret clearance, and hence his job, because he underwent a PTSD evaluation at the Veterans Administration hospital.

    After 39 years of practice, it is my opinion that a wise person will avoid subjecting himself to anything that may result in the contamination of his medical records. The risk is everything from job loss to loss of the right the purchase a firearm or hold a concealed carry permit.

    I regret saying all of this, but that is life.
    Amen to this all the way. Some need the help, but others don't know what their letting themselves in for by seeking out medical help for the littlest things.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    The problem is once declared mental...always mental. That I think is wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by boricua View Post
    Based on experience from my military career (medic), I think these vets should be granted their 2A rights depending on their individual circumstances and mental condition.
    ....

    IMO, it should be handled case-by-case. Just my opinion...
    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    There are numerous ailments which can be misdiagnosed or result a physician inadvertently poisoning one medical records with comments or opinions about one's mental condition. Once such a remark appears in medical records, these comments get perpetuated into the medical records by subsequent medical history entries.

    ....
    ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑

    One of the great successes VCDL had in Virginia two legislative sessions ago was to have the law relative to CHP & gun ownership changed to require reevalation after treatment, if you petition to get them back and provide an appeal process for those "adjudicated as a mentally defective" but recovered.

    In the past, just a TDO voided your rights for the rest of your life.

    § 18.2-308.1:1. Possession or transportation of firearms by persons acquitted by reason of insanity; penalty; permit.
    ....
    B. Any person so acquitted may, upon discharge from the custody of the Commissioner, petition the general district court in which he resides for a permit to possess or carry a firearm. If the court determines that the circumstances regarding the disability referred to in subsection A and the person's criminal history, treatment record, and reputation are such that the person will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest, the court shall grant the petition. Any person denied relief by the general district court may petition the circuit court for a de novo review of the denial. Upon a grant of relief in any court, the court shall enter a written order granting the petition and issue a permit, in which event the provisions of subsection A do not apply. The clerk of court shall certify and forward forthwith to the Central Criminal Records Exchange, on a form provided by the Exchange, a copy of any such order.
    BTW -- Note the SHALL grant & SHALL certify.
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  9. #9
    Member Array SGTMOE's Avatar
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    Bohica

    [B]To the answer of your question......Probley......and this is why I say this......The last couple of years stuff has changed in the VA.....Like I have trouble sleeping at night so they perscribed an medication to help with that and it works pretty well but My primary care doctor doesen't give it to you......you have to go to Mental Health to get it and while being seen by them they start asking you a bunch of questions.....and after that you are "labled" and you all know these days everything is done on computer and there probley set up to pick out the files with the word mental health and (blamm)
    You just been labled...........Now what are you gonna do.....

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed with Boricua in regard to case by case basis of review.
    But then the problem is who or whom handles the review, and what is their status and position(?).

    The post by CWBlanco is sad, discouraging, alarming, and unfortunate.
    Equally so it is as he stated a reflection of real world life and experience. :|

    Veterans are not the only persons affected by this but so are their families too, who otherwise might be without means or ability to support their own human rights toward defense of self.

    We go through this same dialog and situation with every generations veterans. When will it be resolved....

    - Janq

    P.S. - Same conditions apply to non veteran persons who seek or are assigned mental evaluation and support.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uechi View Post
    If you are mentally incompetent I don't care who you are no gun! The problem is that the use of the words " Insane or Mentally incompetent " have been used with great vigor by totalitarian governents to silence the opposition and put them in a Gulag. The US is no way near anything like this, but it is important that Ameicans all be vigilant to prevent any abuses of these terms
    I agree... and I think it's even more important to see who is mentally ill in DC right now, how else can anyone explain this insanity coming from these useless fools... what if they declair someone "mentally incompetent" in the future is they actually were religious, believed in their constitutional rights etc... just look on the current DHS memo the other day... it's scary.
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    Arm everyone. Make it a law that everyone must carry a firearm. The worst will be weeded out rather quick. Robbers, murderers, crazies etc...

    Ok in all seriousness. This is just a way to disarm a section of the public.

    Case by case basis is the best way but I still think its crap.
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