BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?"

This is a discussion on BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?" within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I just got an email from the NRA with this link: In Border States, BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?" Friday, June 19, 2009 ...

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 67

Thread: BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?"

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    2,959

    BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?"

    I just got an email from the NRA with this link:

    In Border States, BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?"

    Friday, June 19, 2009


    NRA-ILA has recently received several calls from NRA members in border states who have been visited or called by agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. In some cases, agents have asked to enter these people's homes, and requested serial numbers of all firearms the members possess.

    In each case, the agents were making inquiries based on the number of firearms these NRA members had recently bought, and in some cases the agents said they were asking because the members had bought types of guns that are frequently recovered in Mexico.

    This kind of questioning may or may not be part of a legitimate criminal investigation. For example, when BATFE traces a gun seized after use in a crime, manufacturers' and dealers' records will normally lead to the first retail buyer of that gun, and investigators will have to interview the buyer to find out how the gun ended up in criminal hands. But in other cases, the questioning may simply be based on information in dealers' records, with agents trying to "profile" potentially suspicious purchases.

    On the other hand, some of the agents have used heavy-handed tactics. One reportedly demanded that a gun owner return home early from a business trip, while another threatened to "report" an NRA member as "refusing to cooperate." That kind of behavior is outrageous and unprofessional.

    Whether agents act appropriately or not, concerned gun owners should remember that all constitutional protections apply. Answering questions in this type of investigation is generally an individual choice. Most importantly, there are only a few relatively rare exceptions to the general Fourth Amendment requirement that law enforcement officials need a warrant to enter a home without the residents' consent. There is nothing wrong with politely, but firmly, asserting your rights.
    If BATFE contacts you and you have any question about how to respond, you may want to consult a local attorney. NRA members may also call NRA-ILA's Office of Legislative Counsel at (703) 267-1161 for further information. Whether contacting a local attorney or NRA, be sure to provide as many details as possible, including the date, time, and location, agent's name, and specific questions asked.
    This seems outrageous
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,164
    Outrageous? I don't know. I don't think I like it one, but try to look fromt he border patrols point of view...they are trying to get a job done and if they cannot ask questions that job would be harder. Being threatening or implying that you have no choice but to comply is another thing...
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this mini documentary!
    Then check out my blog! www.BodyByMcDonalds.com

    Cupcake - 100 pound loser, adventurer, Ironman Triathlete.

  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    1,231
    I can not say what has popped into my head right now.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

  5. #4
    VIP Member
    Array goawayfarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Fork Union, Virginia
    Posts
    2,694
    short answer.....NO!
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,108
    this seems like harassment to me; I remember the last time a democrat was in office, I had an FFL that I used to order weapons and ammo for my friends that were into 3-gun and USPSA. It was a great way to get stuff at wholesale prices and in volume. I remember you had to go to the ATF office to get your license renewed and they basically went over your logbook and made sure your records were in order; When Clinton was elected, that all changed. The price to renew your FFL went way up, and the questioning got very intense. As one agent put it, we were being encouraged to get out of the business unless we had a "legitimate" place of business. Needless to say, my request to renew was rejected, and the next week two of my fellow FFL holders who had shops at a local flea market were arrested and accused of selling weapons illegally. They were cleared of wrongdoing, but the legal fees effectively put them both out of business.

    All this happened around the same time Waco happened, within a couple of months. Without having any valid statistics, I would say the Clinton administration cut the number of FFL holders in half.....

    Now it looks like Obama is going to start repeating history; first, it begins with a well-orchestrated media campaign - Then harassment of otherwise law-abiding gun owners. History tells us what comes next.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  7. #6
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,648
    Don't waste time going door to door...use that manpower to CLOSE THE BORDER!
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  8. #7
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,642
    Some individual members of an "authority" group will always seek to exceed their authority even in violation of the law. That is human nature.

    There was a report yesterday that TSA held a man for no other reason than that he had several thousand dollars of cash (which were donations from a Ron Paul fund raiser) on his person when going through TSA screening. There is no law forbidding the transport of large sums of cash within the US on domestic flights. TSA is being sued and an agent was disciplined.

    The point, just because individual agents of BATFE, TSA, CBP, or your local police screw up, doesn't mean there is a grand conspiracy to deprive all of their rights. It does mean that every group in society has its incompetents and its bullies.

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Tennessee
    Posts
    1,464
    That's the ATF for you. They are the red-headed step-children of federal law enforcement.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, Tennessee Certified Instructor

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Show Me State
    Posts
    2,644
    In some cases, agents have asked to enter these people's homes, and requested serial numbers of all firearms the members possess.
    They can ask, but you don't have to let them in....not without a search warrant.

    I recently broke my own rule.....NEVER let a cop in your house. When my crazy neighbor blew his house up, I had to fill out a police report. I stepped outside with my pen in hand. The cop said "let's go inside".

    I guess I wasn't thinking clearly and I let them inside.

    The cop asked me how many guns I own. I said "is this a trick question?" "Why do you ask?"

    Well, DUH....on my kitchen table was a Rifleman magazine and my gun cleaning equipment.

    Most women have a nice flower arrangement on their kitchen table. But, oh no, not me!

    BTW, I never did answer the cops question about my guns.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,642

    Patti- for once some agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    They can ask, but you don't have to let them in....not without a search warrant.

    I recently broke my own rule.....NEVER let a cop in your house. When my crazy neighbor blew his house up, I had to fill out a police report. I stepped outside with my pen in hand. The cop said "let's go inside".

    I guess I wasn't thinking clearly and I let them inside.

    The cop asked me how many guns I own. I said "is this a trick question?" "Why do you ask?"

    Well, DUH....on my kitchen table was a Rifleman magazine and my gun cleaning equipment.

    Most women have a nice flower arrangement on their kitchen table. But, oh no, not me!

    BTW, I never did answer the cops question about my guns.
    And in what way was how many guns you own relevant to the events which happened next door with your nutsky neighbor or a proper investigation of that?

    Clearly that officer was "fishing." This is precisely the kind of inappropriate behavior which causes, especially minority communities, to refuse to call the police, cooperate with the police, or "snitch." It is behavior which harms us all; including the good LEOs.

    At least based on news stories and individual reports such as yours, there are just too many who can't or won't stay on topic.

    I once invited someone in to report a break in of a storage closet and a stolen typewriter; yeah I'm giving my age away, no one knows what a typewriter is anymore. The officer couldn't or wouldn't focus on the broken lock, but instead seemed to want to trick me into some sort of admission that this was all about an attempt to collect insurance money. The deductible was worth more than the typewriter anyway. Why he couldn't focus or wouldn't focus on the real issue, the broken lock and missing property is of course a matter of speculation.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    2,959
    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    Well, DUH....on my kitchen table was a Rifleman magazine and my gun cleaning equipment.

    Most women have a nice flower arrangement on their kitchen table. But, oh no, not me!
    If my ex-wife did that, we would probably still be married.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802
    I know this forum is generally and specifically pro law enforcement, but I don't consider the BATFE to be "legitimate" LEOs. They have been the trigger point in more than a few blatant violations of constitutional limitations on government, starting with the Waco debacle. They were the trigger point at Ruby Ridge, too. It was a BATFE "sting" gone bad that forced the whole thing into motion. FBI and US Marshals usually have to try and clean things up but sometimes they make it worse.

    There was talk at one point about folding the BATF into the Marshals but the head Marshal stopped that by making the following comment in public: "What do you get when you take clean water and mix it with dirty water? The answer is DIRTY WATER. I DON'T WANT THEM!"

    The agency recruits (I think) nearly specifically for LEOs with anti gun attitudes even though I have seen a couple show up at local IDPA matches and they're great guys. But I would bet my last nickel that in order to make rank there you've got to toe the party line on gun ownership.

    They made the news a few years ago with a BBQ that featured all sorts of racist antics including unrestricted hunting "permits" for African Americans but they didn't use the civilized term for the race.

    I truly hate to say this and I mean NO disrespect to any of our LEOs in this forum, but it's time to face an ugly fact: BATFE is the American Gestapo. They will be the lead element in any federal grab of our firearms and the entire agency should (before it's too late) turn in their firearms, fold their enforcement operations over to the FBI and become strictly regulatory in paperwork for gun shops and FFLs. What do you want to bet that the boys who wear the black gloves and the black helmets and carry the black guns to terrorize the _________folks all leave for jobs where they get to exercise more power? Any takers on that one?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Agave View Post
    That's the ATF for you. They are the red-headed step-children of federal law enforcement.
    Federal "whim" enforcement, you mean, all those little administrative judgments, caveats and other requirements, blown up to look like laws. Beyond the thuggery, therein lies the problem.

    Time to erase this organization from the agency map. It's unworthy of America.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    894
    so if the BATF shows up at my door, what should my response be if they want to "come in for a chat"

    besides a simple NO!!!!! or I'll have to call my lawyer!!
    HAPPY NEW YEAR
    INFIDELS

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,585
    I think it'd be something along the lines of this:

    Arthur: "Shut up! Will you shut up?!"

    Peasant: "Ah! NOW we see the violence inherent in the system."
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Cheaper alternative to "Blue Guns" or "Red Guns?"
    By SpringerXD in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: June 29th, 2013, 07:14 PM
  2. 4 year old asks, loud, "Do you have your gun!"
    By Thanis in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: July 30th, 2010, 02:33 AM
  3. Great article: "Instead of outlawing guns, keep guns away from outlaws"
    By opalelement in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: July 16th, 2010, 09:51 AM
  4. "No Guns"- sign an insult...What if it said "No Jews"?
    By goawayfarm in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: November 4th, 2009, 02:38 AM
  5. Steven Crowders "GUNS, GUNS, GUNS"
    By TerriLi in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 6th, 2009, 03:43 PM

Search tags for this page

henry repeating arms serial numbers

Click on a term to search for related topics.