"Fear Note" From A Police Academy Commander
This is a discussion on "Fear Note" From A Police Academy Commander within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by bobcat35
im not certain of that myself. i know theres an enormous force of our best brightest and most experienced soldiers that ...
July 6th, 2009 04:00 PM
Unfortunately there are a couple of problems with your thinking on this (IMO). The first being that, while you appear to be a rational thinking person, the majority of our armed forces are TRAINED AND TAUGHT that they "are not being paid to think" and to follow ANY order from a superior. Failure to do this results in punishment and denial of meritorious advancement in the future. (Been there, done this, got the DD214.)
Originally Posted by bobcat35
The second is that the bulk of our LEO forces are made up of either bullies or those who couldn't pass a high school exam other than one about sports or Phys Ed. IOW, they aren't the brightest bulbs in the box and couldn't care less about it.
These people won't question if the order they are given is "lawful" or not. They will just follow it. Those who are more mentally enlightened seem to gravitate into other professions even if they start off as LEO or Milspec. So the number of limiting personnel is very small compared to those who will "just do it."
As pointed out already, the Katrina aftermath proved that point. A further point is the Cinco De Mayo "May Day" melee that happened in Los Angeles 2 yrs ago where officers "attacked" anyone including news crews, MEDICAL personnel, and infants along with the adults in the park. Note that NOT ONE SINGLE officer has been determined to be so at fault that they were terminated from the LAPD even though the LAPD made an official finding that their policies were defective and the orders that were issued were "illegal" and that there was a "breakdown in command."
Somehow I do not take comfort in the thought that our LEO and military would choose to disobey an order to attack civilians on the basis that the order was "illegal." Most empirical evidence would show that the order would be obeyed.
July 6th, 2009 04:35 PM
RobP: I like to hope & pray that the OFFICER CORPS of the military, who are paid to think and evaluate critically can stave off disaster. I was on active duty as an infantry lieutenant during the Reagan administration but in the reserves I did a rare branch transfer to armor and got tank qualified for the first part of the Clinton REGIME. I hung out with a bunch of malcontent patriotic flag waving special forces types, then (they took me in as a kind of mascot since I was a N.A.P. tanker captain (Non Airborne Personnel, rather than the much more lowly LEG -- Lack of Essential Guts). Anyway, all I know is that among the officer corps of special forces in the Clinton regime, the subject of revolution and ummm regime change was bandied about quite a bit. The consensus then was that the trigger hadn't yet been reached. I'll bet it's gotten further now! But those old guys are all retired (or dead) now. It's up to the young bloods. I Just. Don't. Know.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
July 6th, 2009 11:52 PM
I just don't see what has everyone that the guy references in his article so concerned. Things seem pretty normal around here.
If there is really something to be concerned about I must have missed it. Until I find out what it is, I'm going back to watching the Michael Jackson tribute. lol.
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.
July 8th, 2009 06:51 PM
I'm not putting on a tinfoil hat (or am I) and some of you may have read this before. Supposedly a survey was given at Twenty Nine Palms in 1994 to gauge opinions about serving under UN control and firing upon citizens in order to confiscate firearms. If this is truth, the results were pretty chilling.
In Liberty & Freedom-Miltary Survey
July 8th, 2009 07:16 PM
It IS true...
I had friends in the SEALs at Coronado who actually saw the survey. It was done by an army captain as part of his Master's thesis and had no "official" validation. BUT later the survey was procured by elements of the clinton administration and circulated among some of the special operations units as a way to assess the readiness levels, hence my buddy the SEAL seeing it. I was told, btw that the Marine Recon all said NO, so did the Army Ranger and Delta guys. The army special forces went so far as to say if you try this we'll raise an army and overthrow the government because THAT is our job description.... But the Navy SEALs said "Ummmm SURE, WHY NOT?" Now of course not all rank and file SEALs said this, it was the chain of command... but still...
Originally Posted by sirdarksoul
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
July 9th, 2009 09:35 AM
IF something were to happen, it would likely be far more subversive than an outright attack on the citizens of the US by some government decree. No one would use a frontal attack, it would be repelled and would be too in your face. Nothing would raise the ire of the citizenry faster.
It would more likely be in response to increased crime or violence in the city of your choice. Fearful people would ask for a help. First a curfew, then martial law in that city. It would happen much more like katrina, then another, and another, dividing and conquering one area at a time. Cities first, rural areas later if needed. I find it hard to believe that a civil war or insurrection will happen. Look how skillful the govt has been at eliminating personal freedom one law at a time.
What used to be first amendment protected speech/ protest is now an act of terrorism. Agree or disagree with them, but the animal rights folks are now being prosecuted as terrorists. Taking pictures of feed lots, public buildings, and bridges etc ( as millions of sight seers do) is now becoming an illegal activity by the patriot act. The MIAC paper had lots of press, I believe other states had similar studies published and while they publicly backed off, did they really?
The military is busy anyway. If needed, Blackwater is available ( whoops, I mean Xe). So are canadian and mexican troops. I just don't think it there will be a direct confrontation with our own. Much better to pass a law prohibiting this or that, then use the media to paint people as terrorist and fringe elements that are a danger to society. Plaster them all over the news, get sheople support and pretty soon you can only have approved public speech, guns are for bad people only, search and seizure is necessary to run an orderly society, guilty unless you can prove otherwise, etc.
The next 10 years are going to be hard.
There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
July 9th, 2009 11:06 AM
The bad news is, we are seeing very strange times ahead. Respectable people are talking about things like economic collapse and the breakup of the "Union".
I think that things will probably come to violence, even though they don't have to. I most worry about what the criminal element would do if they perceived an "open season".
They Soviet Union fell without a shot fired. Check out The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse on Voluntary Servitude if you're interested in why violence is not necessary to overthrow tyranny. It's an easy read.
July 15th, 2009 03:19 PM
A note on Posse Comitatus: It can be reversed if congress can agree to do so. Ideally, this would not be be a problem if house/senate had a mix of critical thinking Americans; however, as we all know, both house and senate are dominated by one party and thus the herd mentality.
"A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington
July 15th, 2009 06:25 PM
This is why every LEO, Military, Peace keeper,... Or anyone that gave the oath should be on Oath Keepers.. .
Just think about it,.. When the first revolution came about, they didn't have communication like today.. Internet, phones,.. Pictures of what is happening,. Today if we are not up on what is going on and keeping in touch with others across the country, we're not doing out part.. There is no-reason that we need to fall victims to all this..
July 26th, 2009 11:33 PM
Survey or no, the Rangers were supposed to have taken part in the Waco massacre. (I think the General in charge was named "Gates".)
About the LEOs; I've read many saying they would never disarm law abiding citizens. You know, if guns are outlawed, those law abiding citizens aren't law abiding any more. What then?
If there's a rebellion against the government, the first expression of that rebellion would be citizen on citizen violence (robbery, rioting, looting, rape, home invasions, arson, and murder) and the LEOs would have to act to restore order. Supporting the bad guys in power would just be a side effect, but an unavoidable one. The decent cops would hate it, but what could they do?
And then there's the simple fact that if things break down into violence against the government, anyone in uniform, any uniform, is going to get shot at. What then? Decent behavior is sort of hard if you are dead.
July 27th, 2009 07:24 AM
Can I put a British Take on this?
As a country that has seen it personal rights erroded over the last 20 years, it does give us an insight of what the US needs to look out for and challenge with your local government, fed government or the courts.
The first thing is DNA, did you know that in the UK if you get arrested they take your DNA?
If you turn out to be innocent, they keep your, DNA Yes you did read that right they KEEP YOUR DNA!!!
This is even though the European Court has ruled this illegal.
So number 1
1 Don't let the lawmakers bring in an automatic DNA law, make sure its written in stone that DNA can only be taken after a conviction.
CCTV (Close Circuit TV)
Have you any idea how many private, local government, central government and police camera's spy on us? No?..... Well even the people spying on us don't!! Its enough for us to be the most watched nation in the world.
2 Resist every attempt to expand the CCTV network.
Your bleeding heart liberals will use this one " If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" Yeah Right!
By the way, the liberals will use the line above for the DNA as well.
Increase of Police Powers
This is a hot potato here as a lot of you are LEO's (and from your post's nice people who I would be happy to be stopped by )
In the UK (and I think Europe) if an LEO stops you they can search your vehicle. (In the UK he has to have reason, a VCP <vehicle check point> cannot operate here)
Europe is different I got stopped in a spot check last week in Dieppe France, totally illegal in the UK.
Once stopped, they have the power to search your car. Anything found that he/she find "interesting" will either result in you being arrested (drugs etc) or given a fixed penalty notice of around $100.
You have to resist any increase of Police powers that erode your freedoms, don't be taken in with "If you have nothing........etc"
or "We need this new law to protect you from terrorists"
Liberals, democrates or labour do not understand that freedom has responsibilties and consquences.
I am happy to go on about how they did it to us, but don't want to bore you or glug this thread up.
If you want more examples of what to watch for, PM me or post.
Tint Bob (UK)
PS When they took pistols off licenced gun owners in 1997 (banned) the Police were REALLY worried as they had no real register to work off and they thought people would fight back, people didn't as in this country you don't own a gun unless you are VERY law abiding.
Only about 250,000 people have firearm certificate's out of a pop of 60m
July 27th, 2009 09:08 AM
All this sounds very snopesish to me; i don't discount at all what other posters, especially those in law enforcement are seeing, and I feel pretty much the same way regarding the unprecedented gun sales going on right now. I saw the 60 minutes segment last night on gun sales, I thought Phillip Van Cleave did a bang-up job representing us (thanks Phil if you are reading this) but I think the people themselves (all of us) feel like something is going to hit the fan in the next couple of years and we are just preparing for the worst. I have stockpiled a good supply of ammo, now I am working on stockpiling a food and water supply that can last the family for about a year if need be. I figure it will take about that long to restore basic services if the crap hits the fan.....
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry
July 27th, 2009 12:41 PM
Oath Keepers Oath Keepers – Guardians of the Republic
Originally Posted by Der Alte
Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, veterans, peace officers, and firefighters who will fulfill the oath we swore to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God.
Our motto is "Not on our watch!"
2nd Amendment: because personal violence never
makes an appointment.
Evil resides in the heart of the individual, not in inanimate objects.
Member of GeorgiaCarry.Org
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