Police in Winter Haven FL DUMP the GLOCK

Police in Winter Haven FL DUMP the GLOCK

This is a discussion on Police in Winter Haven FL DUMP the GLOCK within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Winter Haven Police Ditch Glocks After Two Explode The Ledger ^ Posted on July 19, 2009 WINTER HAVEN | The Police Department is ditching $38,000 ...

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Thread: Police in Winter Haven FL DUMP the GLOCK

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question Police in Winter Haven FL DUMP the GLOCK

    Winter Haven Police Ditch Glocks After Two Explode
    The Ledger ^
    Posted on July 19, 2009

    WINTER HAVEN | The Police Department is ditching $38,000 worth of guns after two .45-caliber GAP Glock Model 37 pistols exploded in separate training incidents a year a part, causing minor injuries to an officer and a cadet.

    "I've been around 34 years in law enforcement, and we've seen malfunctioning with guns, but never seen it explode," Police Chief Mark LeVine said.

    "When I've got two guns out of 90 mess up, something's wrong."

    The department has not had any problems with the guns during use in the line of duty.

    The force of the explosions came down through the bottom of the guns and blew the triggers off, LeVine said.

    Police Officer Frank Scianimanico, 32, and then-cadet Rodrique Jean-Louis, 20, suffered bruised fingers in the separate incidents.

    As a result, the department will try an all-metal gun as a possible replacement for the plastic Glock during weapons testing Tuesday and March 20.

    LeVine issued a memo Feb. 1 to his officers saying that if anyone was uncomfortable carrying the Glock they could carry a personal weapon instead, as long as the gun meets the department's requirements.

    The department tried to work out a solution with Glock. The gun's Georgia-based manufacturer offered to swap out the nearly 2 1/2-year-old guns if the department paid the company $10,000.

    But LeVine said that is unfair.

    "I personally question if it should cost us anything at all," the chief said.

    A Glock spokesman said the company is aware of the Winter Haven incidents, but hasn't had the opportunity to examine the guns yet.

    "Without looking at the pistol, there's no way for us to make a determination," said Glock spokesman Carlos Guevara.

    FIRST EXPLOSION

    The first incident occurred in January 2007 when a Glock exploded while being used by Jean-Louis, a former cadet the department was sponsoring at the Polk Community College Kenneth C. Thompson Institute of Public Safety, which trains prospective police officers.

    Department officials dismissed the incident as the fault of bad ammunition, and so did Glock.

    The second incident, the one involving Scianiamancio, was this January during training at the department's shooting range at the Winter Haven Airport.

    "We had another explode in the same fashion," LeVine said. "We've only got 90 guns, and two failed. It has caused a certain amount of uneasiness."

    The issue seems to be with the gun, which only Glock makes, LeVine said.

    The Polk County Sheriff's Office uses a different Glock, the .40-caliber Model 22 pistol, but there haven't been any incidents with it, said spokeswoman Carrie Rodgers.

    The Sheriff's Office switched last year to the Glocks after using Smith & Wessons. The Glocks cost the agency $350 per gun, compared with $560 for the .45-caliber Smith & Wessons deputies were using.

    "They're easier to fire, more accurate, and they hold more ammunition," Rodgers said.

    Lake Alfred Police Chief Art Bodenheimer said he would never let his officers use a Glock after he saw a video demonstration of one being partially disassembled after being jammed.

    His officers use Smith & Wessons instead, because it is an all-metal gun, compared to the plastic Glock, he said.

    "I'm not a Glock enthusiast," Bodenheimer said.

    The Winter Haven Police Department isn't the only one that has had problem with Glocks. At least two other law enforcement agencies have reported issues.

    Elsewhere in U.S.

    Two .45-caliber Glock Model 21 pistols exploded in the hands of two officers at the Portland Police Department, according to a 2004 article in The Oregonian newspaper. That department then switched to 9 mm Glocks.

    In 2006, The Oregonian reported an officer who was injured when his gun exploded filed a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against Glock and the ammunition manufacturer.

    In Pennsylvania, a training officer with the Upper Darby Township Police Department said his department used to carry the Glock Model 21 before it started jamming.

    The department is now testing a different model of Glock. "We can't get a reason why it keeps happening," he said.

    Guevara said Glock's guns aren't defective, and malfunctioning incidents at other agencies are attributed to ammunition or maintenance of the guns.

    And the fact that the Portland Police Department switched to a different Glock model is an indication of how good Glock guns are, Guevara said.


    ExSoldier's note: I virtually guarantee you that to cut costs these guys were using department issued RNL (Round Nose Lead -- possibly reloads) rounds specifically forbidden by Glock to use in any of their firearms because the octagonal barrel builds up lead deposits frightfully fast to the point of dynamic failure. I've seen it happen several times on the range. Use RNL loads and you will void the warranty. I think this is a "DUH" moment on the part of the cops at the top who want to cut training expenses.
    Last edited by ExSoldier; July 19th, 2009 at 02:17 PM. Reason: format
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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    They should go with the S&W M&P series : )
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    Thumbs up Yep....OR....

    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    They should go with the S&W M&P series : )
    The M&P series is possibly the first S&W pistol I like ergonomically. Good gun. I might also suggest the H&K P30 or H&K 45 or the Sig P226 to them.
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    The department tried to work out a solution with Glock. The gun's Georgia-based manufacturer offered to swap out the nearly 2 1/2-year-old guns if the department paid the company $10,000.

    But LeVine said that is unfair.

    "I personally question if it should cost us anything at all," the chief said.
    Whether or not the pistols are actually faulty or not, I think that's a decent proposal to swap out all of the department's Glocks in 45GAP.

    The Police Department is ditching $38,000 worth of guns after two .45-caliber GAP Glock Model 37 pistols exploded in separate training incidents a year a part, causing minor injuries to an officer and a cadet.
    Ten grand for a whole new batch of pistols aint bad when we're talking that many at that cost.

    ExSoldier's note: I virtually guarantee you that to cut costs these guys were using department issued RNL (Round Nose Lead -- possibly reloads) rounds specifically forbidden by Glock to use in any of their firearms because the octagonal barrel builds up lead deposits frightfully fast to the point of dynamic failure. I've seen it happen several times on the range. Use RNL loads and you will void the warranty. I think this is a "DUH" moment on the part of the cops at the top who want to cut training expenses.
    Quite possible, but they should know better anyway. CYA, and save the warranty. They could buy aftermarket barrels to shoot lead for $100 a piece making a grand total of $9000, and maybe even a discount on the lot if this was the case. Either way, the safety of the police officers should be top of the list. By all accounts, it seems like Glock has attempted to do the right thing for the department even before investigation of the pistols.
    Anyone ever rent a pistol at a local range? Remember the waiver that you sign? Sort of states a true and real fact..........shooting guns can be dangerous and present hazards to the shooter and nobody but the shooter is liable for any injury sustained from taking the known risk of firing a gun.

    In 2006, The Oregonian reported an officer who was injured when his gun exploded filed a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against Glock and the ammunition manufacturer.
    Ridiculous. Pick the ammunition, or pick the gun. Again...shooter takes the risk....know your firearm, know your ammo.

    I have no reason to defend Glock on these issues, I just get tired of hearing about them. I've been injured shooting firearms on more than one occasion. I'm still alive, and I shot firearms yesterday.....I continue to live with the risks involved, and I don't need anyone else to pay for the risks I take on or off the range. Plain and simple.

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    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    I just don't understand why they wanted the .45GAP caliber. This round is new and unproven, or maybe the incidents are saying something about the .45GAP.
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    Will be interesting to see what an examination of the pistols says... Two in the same incident makes me think ammo or some variable outside the pistol, though things like this can happen even to the indestructible Glock. Wonder if they will sell them locally if Glock don't buy them? I'd take one for a few hundred bucks!

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    I'm not a Glock fan but...

    how long till we get the posts bashing all the company's products?
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    Haven't similar things happened with Glocks chambered in .40s&w?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shooterX View Post
    Haven't similar things happened with Glocks chambered in .40s&w?
    For whatever it's worth......the only caliber pistol that Glock makes that I haven't heard about some sort of 'KB' incident would be the 357sig.

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    This article is actually old news. I was originally published Mar 13, 2008 by The Ledger. While not a Glock fan, any time you have a mass produced item, with as many in circulation as there are Glocks you have to expect failures.

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    I've seen the Glock run through the FBI tests and know what it can do. This article is scanty at best and without seeing the test results, no one can make anything but 'assumptions'.

    I'm surprised any police administrator would dump all his weapons for 2 problems without knowing causes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirerogue View Post
    I've seen the Glock run through the FBI tests and know what it can do. This article is scanty at best and without seeing the test results, no one can make anything but 'assumptions'.

    I'm surprised any police administrator would dump all his weapons for 2 problems without knowing causes.
    I agree, and what guarantees do they have on their next choice of weapons?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirerogue View Post
    I'm surprised any police administrator would dump all his weapons for 2 problems without knowing causes.
    +1 have to agree..... not a glock fan but seems like there should have been a little bit better investigation on this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    For whatever it's worth......the only caliber pistol that Glock makes that I haven't heard about some sort of 'KB' incident would be the 357sig.
    It might have something to do with the design of the 357 barrel. It is actually fully supported and the barrel is much thicker than the .45 and .40 barrels to fit the same slide opening. Mine has been dead on reliable but I religiously clean and oil it even when I'm not shooting.

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    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    It was faulty ammo from Speer, not the pistols themselves....

    Ammo Maker: Our Bullets Blew Up Guns | theledger.com | The Ledger | Lakeland, FL
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