SO MAD about Border Crossing! (long rant)
This is a discussion on SO MAD about Border Crossing! (long rant) within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I would send a letter to several major newspapers explaining why Canada would never see a cent of my money ever again....
August 31st, 2009 09:06 PM
I would send a letter to several major newspapers explaining why Canada would never see a cent of my money ever again.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
August 31st, 2009 10:32 PM
That's a good idea, except that most Canadian editors are liberal idiots--just as bad as idiotic liberal American editors. Two exceptions are The National Post and The Toronto Sun.
Originally Posted by obxned
You might also consider writing to the magazine Macleans.
The government of Canada is currently conservative and gun friendly. Unfortunately, it's a minority gov--and so depends on the Liberals for survival. If they ever get a majority, you'll see the gun laws improved considerably.
As for border crossing, though, it's not like the old days and never will be again.
NRA 2AF IDPA
Tactical Pistol Instructor
August 31st, 2009 11:13 PM
I wish they'd keep the southern border that tight.
Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.
August 31st, 2009 11:21 PM
My wife travels internationally and what Bunny has described is both a travesty and happens too often. I would complain to the US government, the Canadian government, the airport and the airline (the last two typically pay for the security provided by the government). Maybe even investigate what the laws are in Canada. If it was done by US personnel, it was an abuse of power at a minimum, but it sounds like a more severe offense to me.
The Canadian airports are worse than any others my wife or I have flown to except one flight out of India. It's easier to fly to a border city and drive across the US-Canadian border both ways.
But next year I'd refuse to go to any convention in Canada if I were you.
Until my wife became a frequent flier she would almost always get picked for the enhanced screening. Why? Because she is an attractive blond, blue eyed woman dressed in business attire, and the TSA personnel couldn't be accused of profiling or it offset when they picked young middle eastern men. Or maybe they liked frisking attractive women traveling alone. Once she became a frequent flier, she stopped getting picked (what a coincidence).
August 31st, 2009 11:30 PM
Several thousand "atomics wedgies" of unlikely candidates at specified crossings while largely ignoring the commercial goods at commercial crossings and ports keeps very, very few people safe.
Originally Posted by Rcher
Witness the reference to the known Cornwall situation, above. Take a look at the truck crossing in Otay Mesa (east of the "main" SanDiego/Tijuana car crossing). Read about a dozen key ports around the world that send half the bulk of the world's imported goods via containers, in terms of what's lacking.
Anyway. The particularly threatening elements are coming separately. Only a mule crosses with the incriminating evidence in hand (on in the bags).
September 1st, 2009 12:31 AM
Sorry you had such a terrible experience. It should NEVER take 30 minutes for a pat-down.
September 1st, 2009 01:27 AM
I'm thinking when they asked you what country you were from you said America. They hate that, because as they often point out, they are also from America.
Besides, giving a wedgy is a form of entertainment in Sounth Carolina, so states a friend of mine who took a trip on the SunCruz. You being from North Carolina, most likely confused them.
Side note, I found it odd that once my carry on was searched and I was padded down prior to entry to an airplane (at the terminal, and I was connecting from MI, having never left the airport, on my way to HI. I found when I was friendly, things keep getting worse. I got angry, and they let me on my way (lucky for me, because all that was left to do was strip). Very odd to be patted down at the terminal. I could never understand what set off such an aggressive search. I'm not talking as I enter the airport. After 30 minutes between a connecting flight, one of the first in line, and just taken to the side and searched till the airplane almost left without me (everyone filing by to enter the plain including my wife). Got several eyes looking at me as I got on the airplane. Wife was like WTH happened?!?
It just happens sometimes bunny. I don't look very middle eastern (maybe a little mediterranean, but I'm mostly german). I though about making it an issue after, desided I would just need to let it go.
People use to joke that no one ever stopped me, I could walk down to the front of a concert, or walk into a police department and people would just open secure doors for me. It was a big joke with the friends because I would end up places, unintended, that I was not authorised. This changed in my late 20s, now I'm always stopped. Guess I should loose the weight.
September 1st, 2009 10:00 AM
Originally Posted by BikerRN
You're both right. Mr. Bunny has to attend international shows for business, and a perk is that Bunny Jr. and I get paid flights and hotel to join him, so it's like free world travel working vacations. He works, we vacation. This is an annual show and I almost didn't go this year...guess I should have declined after all, but I miss Mr. Bunny when he goes away. I don't want to go back next year. We spent a TON of cash in Toronto, and now I'm sitting here, stewing about it.
Originally Posted by Paco
I'm with you on keeping the US safe. However, what this Airport Security woman did doesn't seem like it was going to somehow keep the US safer. Why, because a wedgie is a way to dislodge any contraband I might have been hiding? And it SHOULD have been done behind a screen or in another room, not next to the line of passengers, gawking. If I should have been done at all.
Originally Posted by Rcher
Thanks :) I ordered one yesterday. The first one was that freebie that they sent me that I was all excited about after I joined.
Originally Posted by tmizzi
He just said "I'm going to need to take that hat." so I handed it to him. I try to comply with Authority most of the time. In a foreign country, especially. Yes, he was with the convention and not the airport...hope he's enjoying the hat. Maybe he's a closet gun-nut.
Originally Posted by shooterX
It was. She did. Right next to the security line as the other passengers were taking off their shoes and placing their bags on the conveyor to go through the scanning machines.
Originally Posted by packinnova
She should have at least bought me dinner first.
I have a strong feeling I will be telling him to have a nice trip. He's been ribbing me about the incident. I threatened to call the airport on him next year, tell them he's a mule, and suggest a cavity search. lol.
Originally Posted by archer51
I went to the range and blew off some steam with an AR-15. I feel a lot better than if I had to write about it AGAIN to some bureaucrat who won't do anything in the first place.
Patti, I seriously doubt anything would come of it. What would they do? At the very most, I'd get some form letter of apology. Probably though just an email "we received your letter and are looking into your complaint" notice. I think I'd rather stay home next time.
Originally Posted by Patti
Or maybe the next trip, I won't shower at all and I'll cover myself in some skunk oil. Enjoy frisking me THEN!
Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.
Sig Sauer P239 DAK (9mm)
NRA Member & Pistol Instructor
September 1st, 2009 10:35 AM
I'm not sure if this is any consolation, but Canadian border crossings are 'iffy' at the airport no matter what. Meaning, that long before I ever had my CWP, I had to be very careful about what I said, with dire consequences. Once I was going up to teach a training class, and said so when asked what my business there was. HUGE MISTAKE. That little statement earned me a one-hour wait for a supervisor to become available to sit me down in a cubicle and write a book about me. Apparently the problem had to do a concern about money flowing from their citizens to an american. Once I explained that I worked for a Canadian company, I finally go outta there (2 hours later). For future trips after that, I simply said that I was there to receive training, and everything was cool.
September 1st, 2009 01:55 PM
re: WHEC724---its a work visa or permit
Uh, you can't just go to another country and work. Folks from other countries can't legally just come here and work either, at least not without the right paperwork.
Originally Posted by WHEC724
It requires the right permit, visa, or whatever the country you go to requires. So once you told them you were there on business, to teach a class for which you were going to be paid, you were no longer allowed entry as a tourist, because you weren't there as a tourist. There is nothing unusual about that. We do the same thing.
Folks who are not experienced in international travel often do not realize another country has a perfect right to deny you entry or to set limits on what you can and cannot do once you enter.
Next time, if there is a next time, instead of not telling the truth about why you are there and risking real arrest for the real crime of perjury and illegal entry, apply for the proper paper work before leaving the US. If you are doing this on a regular basis, teaching in Canada or wherever, or planning to work in another country, talk to their folks here in the US about getting the proper papers.
FWIW, other countries often are a great deal easier to deal with than we are to their nationals. Canada once issued me a 1 year work permit entry at their border. I naively, as the poster above, thought I could just saunter on in and proceed to my job. I think it took them all of about 20 minutes to process things for me. They were very nice actually. Didn't search my car, didn't demand proof of the job I had lines up or give me any grief whatsoever.
September 1st, 2009 05:02 PM
Just wear a burkah with one of those face screens and carry a copy of the Koran. You'll be fine.
Originally Posted by Bunny
I've never had trouble getting back into the US, but your story reminds me of an incident I witnessed at Reno, NV airport.
April, 2002. I had attended the NRA convention and show and on Sunday afternoon, was heading back home. As you may know, many of the vendors at the show hand out little free-be trinkets and goodies. One such goodie was a miniature black plastic lapel pin in the shape of a Glock pistol. Mind you, this thing is no longer than one inch. I had anticipated heightened security, it being only 7 months after Sept. 11, 2001, so I packed all of my goodies in my checked luggage, along with my real Glock 27, as per FAA (at the time) regulations. Not a problem, we sailed right through.
As I was sitting at a nearby bench on the "safe" side of the security checkpoint, retieing my shoes, I observed an encounter between a fellow NRA member and an officer of Reno PD. Not a guard, not a "TSA" or equivalent, but a city cop, in uniform. The officer approached the man and told him he would have to surrender his little lapel pin, because it "resembles a gun." The gentleman, in his late 60's, grumbled but gave up his "offensive, frightening" lapel pin. The gentleman, in a hurry to catch his flight, continued on his way, not happy, but "whatcha gonna do?"
I was still within ear shot, tieing my other shoe, when the officer walked to another officer standing nearby. He held up the pin for his colleague to see and said; "Look what the NRA just gave me." I tried finding the lawful owner of the pin, but could not locate him in the terminal. Having just retired from my alma mater PD less than one year before this, I was really, really pissed! Police officers have no authority to seize property without due process. In this case, it would mean issuing a receipt for the item, so it can later be reclaimed by the rightful owner, or used as evidence in a trial. I went back to try and get the officer's name, but he was no longer there when I returned. I had just witnessed a theft under color of authority.
The next business day, I contacted Reno PD chief's office (long distance) and reported what I had seen. The Chief had personally welcomed NRA to Reno on Friday. They agreed that the officer failed to follow procedure for seizing property. After a 3 day "investigation" I was told by the chief's office that all officers who were on duty at that time claimed no knowledge of the seizure of the pin. I contacted the NRA, who never responded, a friend who has a radio program about guns (Tom Gresham's Gun Talk) who aired the story, and local Reno media which ignored me.
It was ironic for me, because my alma mater PD had used Reno PD as a model for their "community policing" program.
U.S. Navy Veteran '65-'69
Retired Police Detective '71 - '01
NRA Life Member / SAF Member
U.S. Constitution (c) 1791, All Rights Reserved.
September 1st, 2009 06:49 PM
Not to be an ass but it is a "burqa" which is a full head too toe garment that has a screen to see out of and it is hard to see. When you wear one you can squat for hours some were ( not in north America but else where)and no one will look or bother you. It is the Qur'an. Koran is American slang.
Just wear a burkah with one of those face screens and carry a copy of the Koran. You'll be fine.
"It is foolish to hunt a tiger when there are so many sheep around"
September 1st, 2009 09:47 PM
Hey Bunny, sorry this happened but don't worry. They have to make it look good, that they are actually searching people and protecting the public from terrorists. Since 9/11 I haven't been searched but before 9/11 I was pulled out of the lines 5 times!!! In Greece, I was searched twice, and during one of those searches, they tore all of my things out of my bags and did the body search!!! At LAX they have searched me a couple of times and at Heathrow, the same thing, I get pulled out of the line and thoroughly searched. I figured its because I look young and have lots of stamps in my passport so maybe its a combination of your looking young and having lots of stamps. And maybe, as you said, you look Middle Eastern even though you have a Dutch name. They aren't supposed to profile but I think they do anyway.
I know its an inconvenience but I'd rather be searched than not; I have nothing to hide so let 'em have at it. Being a dual US/Canadian I have had all experiences. Most likely it was Canadian Customs that got you at the initial screening where you take off your shoes and put your carry on stuff in the gray bins. After that, you enter the US Immigration part of the airport and then show your passport to a US customs person.
I really don't think a terrorist is going to try smuggling in any kinds of crap that will blow up planes; but I do agree with an earlier poster (sorry my fellow Canadian dude, can't remember who it was) that the Indian reservations at the border are un-patrolled and anything goes there. They make their own cigarettes and smuggle whatever they want and will never, EVER get in trouble or arrested for anything!!!
Ok, I'm done ranting now. Time for another glass of wine
September 1st, 2009 11:48 PM
I wouldn't mind security checks if they actually were trying to institute real security. We screen for weapons, not bad guys. There are more holes in airport security than I care to think about. A guy who used to be in charge of security for nuclear facilities described airport security as "Little Old Lady" security - actions done to make Little Old Ladies feel good about flying.
We do whatever is asked of us when flying, in order to get on the plane and on our way. That makes sense. But once it gets more than 15 minutes of searching your person, or it becomes public humiliation, then it is time to stop co-operating (assuming you are innocent and did not do something galactically stupid). Loudly asking why they are repeatedly frisking you in such a public place, are they getting off doing this, requesting to speak to a supervisor, request a lawyer, request medical attention due to stress, ask them to call LEOs, etc. Ask other passengers to call your family, company, lawyer, whoever you can think of. Just because you are trying to get on a plane does not mean you have lost all your civil rights and can be abused by anyone with a uniform (at least not in the USA).
September 2nd, 2009 12:11 AM
Bunny, sorry that you had such a bad experience and what they did was wrong on many levels. I agree with most of everybody else and not grace them with your presence next year!
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