"If drugs were legal, there would be nothing to fight about."

This is a discussion on "If drugs were legal, there would be nothing to fight about." within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by LM2024 Exactly. Fact: Addicts need more and more quantities of the drug to get that same high. And they will be forever ...

View Poll Results: Security w/ relaxed drug avail.: better/worse?

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  • My family would be safer, on the whole, day-to-day.

    47 30.92%
  • My family would find greater threats, on a daily basis.

    56 36.84%
  • It would be little different from today.

    49 32.24%
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Thread: "If drugs were legal, there would be nothing to fight about."

  1. #16
    Member Array zbock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LM2024 View Post
    Exactly.

    Fact: Addicts need more and more quantities of the drug to get that same high. And they will be forever trying to capture that first high.

    And they will DO ANYTHING to get that high. And that means steal, maim, rob, and even kill. Can't even get these pot heads, crack heads, and tweakers to even work, much less be a productive member of society.
    1.) There will always be addicts, and addicts will always behave in a crazy fashion - legalizing drugs won't change that and I can agree with that.

    However you're implying that legalizing drugs will increase the number of addicts, that's not necessarily the case. Just because cocaine gets legalized doesn't mean people by the millions are going to go out and start doing it, become addicted and ruin their lives. I will never smoke pot or do cocaine no matter how legal or normal it becomes.


    Quote Originally Posted by LM2024 View Post
    Much of gang related violence is due to the drug trade. The way the gangs look at it, they need something to make money off of, so they will offer the drugs at an even lower price. With illicit drugs legal, more people will be addicted. Why would these addicts pay more money for a highly taxed product when they can get it from their crack/meth drug dealer? They want more drugs for their buck.

    We need more people addicted and robbing and stealing and murdering like we need a hole in the head. Those who compare this with alcohol are totally ignorant about the situation. We already have a problem with people driving while intoxicated on the roads, lets add even more high/drug addicted drivers to the mix. It should be even safer on the roads.
    Gangs will not be able to compete with companies that can use economics to produce and distribute drugs. If anything drugs will cost less than they do now.

    Furthermore any violent activity perpetuated by addicts due to the legalization of drugs pales in comparison to the amount of violence that goes in between cartels, gangs, drug wars, etc that will stop once drugs are legalized.

    Finally the country spends a balls ton of money on jailing people for possesion, fighting a war on drugs, etc. The benefits in reduction of violence and spending are far greater than the the health/addict consequences of legalizing drugs.

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  3. #17
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    We need to try something different --lots of somethings different--because what we are doing doesn't work very well and costs us a fortune in LE costs, legal/trial costs, jail -housing costs, rehab. costs. Our present approach piles cost upon cost upon cost with not a whole lot of real control to show for the effort.

    There is no magic answer, but certainly decriminalizing possession of prescription drugs and decriminalizing possession of modest quantities of pot would be a start. It could be tried for 10 years, and see what happens.

    As for the more dangerous stuff in the form of PCP and similar, in fact for most of these things, punish bad behavior instead of mere possession.

    The only other approach that might work would be to institute very severe punishment, death penalty, as in some of the SE Asian countries. But then, that hasn't stopped their problem, has it?

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array kellyII's Avatar
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    I think if it was legalized then you would see even more criminals and dopeheads out on the prowl. They're everywhere now, but just imagine how many there would be out roaming the streets in the broad daylight flaunting it.

    I for one would rather not subject my children to legalized dope peddling. This would only bring out more criminal activity.. One could even say that the viloence may decrease, but I truly doubt that to.

    Violent activity would infact increase, being that the drugs and drug money were readily availabe at you local stop and rob friendly gonja store..

    How manay have been to countries where the selling of narcotics are legal? Well I can tell you that the majority of the people loitering around the drug supplier stores are not the most pleasing people to encounter. They only want one thing, drugs and they dont care what actions they have to take inorder to finance their habbit..

  5. #19
    Member Array andr0id's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tns0038 View Post
    I tend to agree with you. First let me say I do not use the stuff.

    Prohibition was abolished because the Government could not stop the sale of alcohol, and citizens did not want prohibition.

    Same today, the only way to stop the “drug cartels” is to legalize cannabis and cocaine, tax it, regulate it to produce produced in this country and sell it like you would hard liquor, but only regulate how much one can buy at a time.

    Sure there will be some society health issues, but it’s obvious some citizens in the country want to use recreational drugs, and are willing to go to jail to do so, a government of the people and for the people should legalize it.
    Yep, even today's there's still a minor amount of booze and tobacco smuggling going on, but it is very isolated and rare and doesn't affect the average person.

    I think same would happen with drugs. It would be far easier to buy them at the store than to deal with shady characters on street corners.

    You wouldn't have to rob houses and pawn stuff for your next high, you could just beg a few dollars on a street corner along side the local alcohol addict. Dopers are lazy, they're not going to rob houses and risk getting blown away if some other path is easier.

  6. #20
    Member Array V65magnafan's Avatar
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    I'll preface my remarks by saying that I do enjoy a drink or two with dinner, and a beer before dinner.

    That being said, I have a problem with the legalization of other recreational drugs.

    We already have enough problems with alcohol. Why add to these problems?

    I'm from that baby boomer hippie generation. Every single one of my friends and acquaintances who experimented with drugs have dropped off the edge of the earth. They are not on the Internet. They are gone. Disappeared. One of them had a masters degree and a promising career. He took LSD a few times, cleaned out his and his wife's joint account of $33,000 (in 1969) and disappeared. Forever. Gone. No exceptions. I don't know where any of them are. You can bet that the ones that can be traced are the old jerks with the vacant looks who voted for Obama.

    Now, the illicit drug industry is probably bigger than the defense industry.

    Designer drugs with more and more weird effects are hitting the market. Take a look at cultures around the world where non-alcoholic recreational drugs are tolerated. In most of those cultures, people don't even bother to get up out of their own excrement (an exaggeration, but not by much.)

    So, I think that the war on drugs should continue. Longer sentences with clean but non-recreational prisons built in the Canadian arctic would be a good idea. Out of sight, out of mind. And no escape with -45 temps in the winter and mosquitos big enough for landing lights in the summer.
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  7. #21
    Member Array carver's Avatar
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    If Drugs were legalized in America, would you choose to use? I wouldn't! But that's just me, my drug of choice is Alcohol. Drugs have never, in the history of man, been illegal, until just recently in mans history. Why are they illegal now? The folks that used were never a threat to anyone but themselves. The reason behind crime and drugs is simply because it is illegal, hard to get, and expensive; "black-market". If they were legal, and easy to get in certain amounts, then there would be no need to burglarize the neighbors home to get money to buy drugs. There would be no reason for our young to stand on a street corner, and sell them. Think of the number of men/women in America who are locked up right now! Why? Can you fight a war against an inanimate object? The war on drugs was never about the drugs, but about getting the unemployable male off the street, just as these same men would have been put on the front lines in a real war. I say legalize drugs! The choice to use, or not to use, is yours, and yours alone. The Government should have no say, what so ever, in your personal choices. If you fear that a drugged up person is a threat to you, then we also have the right to defend ourselves. If you look at the history of drug use through out time you will see that the users were never a threat to society.
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  8. #22
    Member Array LM2024's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbock View Post
    1.) There will always be addicts, and addicts will always behave in a crazy fashion - legalizing drugs won't change that and I can agree with that.

    However you're implying that legalizing drugs will increase the number of addicts, that's not necessarily the case. Just because cocaine gets legalized doesn't mean people by the millions are going to go out and start doing it, become addicted and ruin their lives. I will never smoke pot or do cocaine no matter how legal or normal it becomes.
    That's a fine theory professor. So I suppose you won't mind your children are able to buy crack and meth at your local Wally World? Or is this the hypocritical attitude of: it's okay until it impacts my family.

    Quote Originally Posted by zbock View Post
    Gangs will not be able to compete with companies that can use economics to produce and distribute drugs. If anything drugs will cost less than they do now.
    And you know this how? So now we're going to mass produce crack and meth in order to make it cheaper? Am I reading this right?

    Quote Originally Posted by zbock View Post
    Furthermore any violent activity perpetuated by addicts due to the legalization of drugs pales in comparison to the amount of violence that goes in between cartels, gangs, drug wars, etc that will stop once drugs are legalized.


    So all these gangs are all of a sudden going to play nice with each other now that their source of income is supposedly cut off? Are you serious? Or is this some theory?

    Quote Originally Posted by zbock View Post
    Finally the country spends a balls ton of money on jailing people for possesion, fighting a war on drugs, etc. The benefits in reduction of violence and spending are far greater than the the health/addict consequences of legalizing drugs.
    Have you actually dealt with crackheads and tweakers? So more addicted people, who by the way, will do anything to feed their addiction, will somehow lessen the burden on society?

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Can I vote "whomever wants to legalize drugs must be high" ???
    I'm with Rugergirl on this one.
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  10. #24
    Member Array zbock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LM2024 View Post
    That's a fine theory professor. So I suppose you won't mind your children are able to buy crack and meth at your local Wally World? Or is this the hypocritical attitude of: it's okay until it impacts my family.



    And you know this how? So now we're going to mass produce crack and meth in order to make it cheaper? Am I reading this right?





    So all these gangs are all of a sudden going to play nice with each other now that their source of income is supposedly cut off? Are you serious? Or is this some theory?



    Have you actually dealt with crackheads and tweakers? So more addicted people, who by the way, will do anything to feed their addiction, will somehow lessen the burden on society?
    I would argue that the effects would be similar to that of the ending of prohibition. When was the last time you heard of organized crime/violence regarding the production and distribution of alcohol? Based on history I would argue that the legalization/distribution of drugs would play out in a similar fashion.

    In the 1970s a commission from the Nixon administration recommended criminalizing the possession of marijuana.

    "Neither the marihuana user nor the drug itself can be said to constitute a danger to public safety," concluded the report's authors, led by then-Gov. Raymond Shafer of Pennsylvania. "Therefore, the Commission recommends ... [the] possession of marijuana for personal use no longer be an offense, [and that the] casual distribution of small amounts of marihuana for no remuneration, or insignificant remuneration no longer be an offense."

    Despite the commission's recommendations, Nixon and Congress ignored the report. Since then, more than 13.2 million Americans have been arrested on marijuana charges, including some 735,000 in 2000 - the last year for which federal data is available.
    Nixon Commission Report Advising Decriminalization of Marijuana Celebrates 30th Anniversary - NORML

    I studied this report thoroughly for a college course where we debated the legalization/criminalization of marijuana. At any rate you have a presidential commission stating that criminalizing a drug would decrease the burden on society. It may or may not be the case with coke/meth but it should be looked into from a societal & economic perspective.

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    Ok, I live in Medical-Marijuana-Land and I can tell you for certain that it is not good. The new crime of the day is for folks to steal people's legal pot. On guy in a nearby town has been hit several times. The last time, the BG's drove their car through his fence and took his plants. (CA lets pot users grow a limited number of plants for personal use). His response was to come out into the street shooting (he was naked by the way). These crimes are up.

    The other thing that we just can't get around is abuse of the system--suddenly every dirtbag in the county has a debilitating condition necessitates a script for pot.

    Finally, we've got to acknowledge that these drugs are not only bad for individuals, they arre bad for society. If you ask most hard drug users what their first drug was, they'll tend to answer marijuana. It is a gateway to harder drug use. Beyond that it is also mind-altering. We have enough people roaming our streets and neighborhoods whose minds are blasted by drug use.

    Making these drugs legal may stifle the drug trade, but that problem will be replaced by a more widespread menace of people doing desparate things to afford their now-legal, highly addictive, life-controlling habit.
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  12. #26
    Member Array V65magnafan's Avatar
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    Somebody here said that recreational substances have been legal for thousands of years, but have been criminalized in recent history. This is mainly because these drugs have been engineered to be much stronger--and new drugs are coming on line all the time--with effects primitive people never had to suffer.

    This ties in with the unproveable theory that the alcohol cartels make sure that the other recreational drugs remain criminalized.

    Interesting theory. Can it be proven?

    Again, we have enough trouble with alcohol. Why add to the problem?
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  13. #27
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    I think legalizing or at least decriminalizing marijuana is the only thing that should be considered, otherwise I don't agree with making "hard drugs" legal.

  14. #28
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Reading through the post here I detect a certain amount of concern for the nefarious felons that are involved in the drug trade.

    Personally I do not have much concern for gangbangers, cartel members, drug runners and others of that ilk. If they want to kill each other off I say, more power to them. I don't much care about trash killing trash. I do care however about trash impacting and influencing the lives of decent people, no matter their economic status, race or anything else.

    With that said, I think that if we legalized drugs we would create a vacuum in the order of things that will create turmoil and lead to a redistribution of power. Bear in mind though that the ones most effected by this vacuum will do what they can to keep the status quo. This in turn will lead to more violence than what we have now, IMO. It will also increase the crime rates, as the users of these products will need to have some way to pay for it. Also, there would still be a black market for the stuff, much like the mafia and cigarettes.

    Bear in mind, I have spent a lot of time in countries where recreational use is not criminal. You still have crime, and less productive members of society using drugs, just like here, with illegal drugs. In short, nothing will change for the "average" decent person that doesn't use drugs, except that I believe that given our culture the crime rate will increase.

    Look at the amount of trouble we already have with alcohol. Now you want to compound the problem by making drugs legal? To me that would be nothing more than foolish folly that puts everyone at more risk and will have grave consequences that I doubt many have thought of.

    It's nice to think of the "benefits" of legalizing drugs, but I think those that are inclined to favor the legalization have not pondered the equation significantly enough.

    Just my $0.02.

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  15. #29
    Senior Member Array TucAzRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugergirl View Post
    Where is the "You've got to be kidding me" voting option?
    I agree with this,.. If drugs was easy to get, people would be buying them.. Kids would find it easier to give and fall prey to addiction...

    Not a good idea in my books,.. But I can see it happening,... I think I want to move to the mountains and build a small cabin.. This world makes me sick to think about...

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Siafu's Avatar
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    Marijuana is already decriminalized in NY and the criminal element is still hard at work causing as many problems as humanly possible. I suggest locking them up for illegal drug use.

    The sad reality here in NY is that if you have no prior record and get caught with a pound of marijuana or a 40 ft tractor trailer load of it, the penalty is still the same. It cannot rise above the level of a "C" felony. So the lesson here is that if you have no criminal history whatsoever and decide to get in the drug game than you should buy as much marijuana as you can get your hands on because a "C" felony with no priors will not land you any jail time.

    Just think, the Washington politicians from NY want to turn our great nation into one giant NY. Schumer, Rangle, Clinton (former), Gillibrand...sometimes I wish I could just wake up from this bad dream.

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