"If drugs were legal, there would be nothing to fight about."

This is a discussion on "If drugs were legal, there would be nothing to fight about." within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Bunny Can I vote "whomever wants to legalize drugs must be high" ??? I'm with Rugergirl on this one. I'll go with ...

View Poll Results: Security w/ relaxed drug avail.: better/worse?

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  • My family would be safer, on the whole, day-to-day.

    47 30.92%
  • My family would find greater threats, on a daily basis.

    56 36.84%
  • It would be little different from today.

    49 32.24%
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Thread: "If drugs were legal, there would be nothing to fight about."

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    Can I vote "whomever wants to legalize drugs must be high" ???
    I'm with Rugergirl on this one.
    I'll go with you and Rugergirl on this one.
    The only people I've meet in person who would like to legalize drugs are using them now.
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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    The good news is that we here on Defensive Carry will eventually, through debate and brother/sisterhood, solve all the world's problems.

    Seriously, though, Prohibition caused the violence we associate with 1920's Chicago. Drugs are bad, m'kay, but prohibition only increases drug costs, encourages corruption, increases drug potency, increases many times the cost of drugs (thereby encouraging people into crime to support their habit), and most of the other negative effects we see.

    Mark Thornton wrote a great book on the economics of prohibition. http://mises.org/books/prohibition.pdf I would encourage folks here to read, though I doubt many will... *sigh*

    FWIW, if you presently believe that an increase in drug crime (for any reason) would affect you or your family, it is probably irresponsible or foolhardy of you to live where you do. Drug crime, at least, tends to be (mostly) located in easily-identifiable neighborhoods.

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  4. #33
    Member Array Eirerogue's Avatar
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    I disagree on the 'easily identifiable neighborhoods' comment. Many of those neighborhoods were NOT so easily identifiable as drug corridors BEFORE crack and meth hit.

    As for neighborhoods...cocaine, heroin and meth are being used in your neighborhood. Right now. Only you don't know it.

    This legalization issue is the subject of many a study and PLEASE don't quote me NORML studies here. They've been trying to reform MJ laws since the 60's and now under the guise of 'medical MJ' NORML's still working the shmooze.

    Retired DEA Agent here....28 years of seeing drugs in the US and the 'tolerance' discussions, personal use concepts and 'go along to get along' arguments.

    As a nation, we are not ready to legalize drugs and bear the incredible costs and problems that such laws would bring.

    Cartels will still fight for drug distribution corridors and attempt to undercut govt pricing. Who creates the drugs for sale? So our govt would be getting into the drug business? Who's caring for the tens of thousands of new addicts. Ask a cop about tweakers and their health and lifestyle. Who's educating these drug users? Whose paying for hospitals, treatment centers, etc.

    What about burglaries? Prostitution? Where do you thing the druggies are going to get the money for their drugs? Or do we give it to them on demand?

    Murders over drugs going away? Not in any scenario. Assaults would go up dramatically as well. If I can't pay for the drugs, I'll steal them.

    I could do pages.

    Bad idea, period. If you think it would be nice....you should have seen Zurich Park in SZ. Kids overdosing on the grass, needles everywhere and thousands of zombies roaming the city seaching for money for drugs.

    Amsterdam is changing its laws and image. Too much crime after people are leaving their cute 'coffee houses'.

    Ive always been in favor of strong law enforcement, strong laws and an informed population knowing the dangers of drug use. The use it, tax it crowd has their heads in the sand. IMO.

  5. #34
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    So fancy sneakers should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by PastorPack View Post
    Ok, I live in Medical-Marijuana-Land and I can tell you for certain that it is not good. The new crime of the day is for folks to steal people's legal pot. On guy in a nearby town has been hit several times. The last time, the BG's drove their car through his fence and took his plants.
    So by that logic, fancy sneakers, iPhones, and other stuff should be illegal.

  6. #35
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    So fancy sneakers should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by PastorPack View Post
    Ok, I live in Medical-Marijuana-Land and I can tell you for certain that it is not good. The new crime of the day is for folks to steal people's legal pot. On guy in a nearby town has been hit several times. The last time, the BG's drove their car through his fence and took his plants.
    So by that logic, fancy sneakers, iPhones, and other neat stuff should be illegal, because BGs will steal what they want.

    I think that is a pretty weak argument.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirerogue View Post
    As for neighborhoods...cocaine, heroin and meth are being used in your neighborhood. Right now. Only you don't know it.
    Actually, I do know it. I was talking about drug-related crime. Like the real crimes, where people get hurt or robbed. Not the fake crimes, where the government doesn't like what people ingest and is willing to kill them to stop them.

    Retired DEA Agent here....28 years of seeing drugs in the US and the 'tolerance' discussions, personal use concepts and 'go along to get along' arguments.
    No offense here, but your DEA career was entirely contingent on the illegality of drugs, so you might be a little biased.

    Ive always been in favor of strong law enforcement, strong laws and an informed population knowing the dangers of drug use.
    Great plan so far... All of this is to say that it has never been demonstrated that legalization would make the public at large less safe.

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  8. #37
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    I think LE should be preventing real crime, rather than arresting someone for smoking a joint. Heck, even if they want to snort some toot, I don't care. So long as they don't drive after getting high, it's fine with me.

    I truly don't understand all the fuss about this "war on drugs". It's a losing cause. Drugs are readily available everywhere, even with our incredible efforts to contain them. Some people just wanna get high, and they'll do whatever it takes to buy the drugs. I say - make it all legal, collect the taxes, put the drug cartels out of business and let LEO's chase rapists, robbers and murderers.

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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I read most of the posts in the thread but not all.

    A couple of points for some that want to ignore facts. Alcohol is a drug and is legal. Prescription drugs are legal, and are in increasing numbers creating more and more addicts.

    So with those two facts out there I will ask the following questions. How many members on this forum are addicted to either alcohol or prescription drugs?

    Many here won't even drink when carrying a gun. Would that change if pot became legal. Would you all suddenly turn into stoners? I doubt it.

    Prohibition resulted in one of the largest upticks in crime in this nations history. The simple fact that something that is in demand is illegal or hard to get immediately increases the value of that item. Drugs are no different. If certain drugs became legal the usage would probably go up initially, but would then level out. The cost of those drugs would definately go down because the risk of production, transportation and distribution would be lowered dramatically.

    One last thing to think about. If ammo suddenly became illegal what would happen to the price of ammo. How many more people would we have to keep in prison because of ammo violations? My guess is about 50 to 75 percent of the people on this forum would find either some way to get away with breaking the law, or get rich by selling or making ammo to circumvent the law.

    The war on drugs isn't and hasn't worked. Do I want folks dealing drugs from next door. No. Does being illegal stop this from happening, nope. Well no, my neighbors don't do it, but it does happen in just about every type of neighborhood in this country.
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  10. #39
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    If drugs are regulated then they will never be as "strong" as they are now. There will still be a smaller black market for the more potent stain of the drug. But normal people, your neighbors, will just do more of the legal drug. This can be seen is alcohol regulations and use today. It sounds like great tax money.

    The best thing to do is STOP using drugs. They really are no good. Same thing with high alcohol consumption and smoking. GO ahead, screw yourself up so I can pay for you hospital bills with my tax dollars.

    Great grandad's family did moonshine making back in Missouri. That got legalized and the family suffered. Grandpa had to join the army just to eat.
    What will all these drug dealers move to to make money? Prostitution? hmmm

  11. #40
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    In a way, I think things would get worse. Just like enough alcohol.......juveniles and delinquents will feel bullet-proof. This stuff will still cost money to buy, and what happens when a 'user' runs out of dope AND cash? Relaxing current illegal drug laws or anything like that will do one of two things to my thinking. Reduce some violence at the middle level of the supply chain, but increase violence on the upper end and a fight to see who will be the supplier. You see, it's not really a game of drugs and control.......it's all about money and humans tend to be very greedy. It's always about money, it's the root cause, and there are plenty of scumbags out there that won't bat an eye about taking life to line their pockets or get what they want. Drugs and money just go together almost anywhere. Take away money anywhere in the chain of supply, and you'll have major problems. If relaxing drug control policy would effectively cause those 'in the business' to start offing one another, I might be all for it. But I don't think it would go that way, and we might see corporate mergers and entities capitalizing on a newly found money train built on a bed and rails of blood with cross ties of human bodies in a race to the top. With the current economic times we're in, it's almost impossible to believe that this sort of thing might happen. A nation waiting for a fix, and primed for the taking. Think about a whole country like East L.A. That's what it would be in my opinion. Are we ready for something like that? Get someone hooked, then take it away. Would you have total control over them then? Of course...that's easy. It's been proven time and again. What will they do to get some more? Anything. You best not be standing in the way.

  12. #41
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    "I suggest locking them up for illegal drug use." I do think this is a good idea. The users are just everyday schmucks.
    Who has been to Holland? Their soft drug policy has keep their jail less full, which is a good thing. But it doesn't hurt the drug cartels too hard, their pocket just aren't as full as usual. They are actually shutting down the "coffee cafes" in Amsterdam now due to the majority being owned by foreign drug lords.

    I think Mexico just needed to kick the cartels in the balls to slow them down a little. I live in El Paso. Its not good.

    A word about Juarez: You go over there and it's 50/50 you will get shot right now. They are just going for other drug gang members (who are from all walks of life over there) but don't care if you get in the way. One on the kids that works for my got mowed down while parting over there. One secritary's date shot dead, his friend was kidnapped, the new secretaries uncle was just shot dead two weeks ago after being mistaken for someone else.

    The bummer part is the small street gangs are taking advantage of the lawlessness and mugging normal people indiscriminately.

    They are kidnapping people here in el paso for the ransom money. This is the main reason I got my CHL.

    A few days ago the second richest man in Juarez was killed. He was suppose to be untouchable.
    The head of police was killed a long time ago, as well as his predecessor, and the guy who (ex military) followed next. No one is brave enough to fill the roll anymore. The city is policed by the military now.

    Everyone is just plain out of ideas right about now.

  13. #42
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    An ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by i10casual View Post
    Everyone is just plain out of ideas right about now.
    How about a 5 mile deep zone controlled by the US to stop drug traffic and people smuggling? Mexico won't like it, but too bad for them.

  14. #43
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirerogue View Post
    I disagree on the 'easily identifiable neighborhoods' comment. Many of those neighborhoods were NOT so easily identifiable as drug corridors BEFORE crack and meth hit.

    As for neighborhoods...cocaine, heroin and meth are being used in your neighborhood. Right now. Only you don't know it.

    This legalization issue is the subject of many a study and PLEASE don't quote me NORML studies here. They've been trying to reform MJ laws since the 60's and now under the guise of 'medical MJ' NORML's still working the shmooze.

    Retired DEA Agent here....28 years of seeing drugs in the US and the 'tolerance' discussions, personal use concepts and 'go along to get along' arguments.

    As a nation, we are not ready to legalize drugs and bear the incredible costs and problems that such laws would bring.

    Cartels will still fight for drug distribution corridors and attempt to undercut govt pricing. Who creates the drugs for sale? So our govt would be getting into the drug business? Who's caring for the tens of thousands of new addicts. Ask a cop about tweakers and their health and lifestyle. Who's educating these drug users? Whose paying for hospitals, treatment centers, etc.

    What about burglaries? Prostitution? Where do you thing the druggies are going to get the money for their drugs? Or do we give it to them on demand?

    Murders over drugs going away? Not in any scenario. Assaults would go up dramatically as well. If I can't pay for the drugs, I'll steal them.

    I could do pages.

    Bad idea, period. If you think it would be nice....you should have seen Zurich Park in SZ. Kids overdosing on the grass, needles everywhere and thousands of zombies roaming the city seaching for money for drugs.

    Amsterdam is changing its laws and image. Too much crime after people are leaving their cute 'coffee houses'.

    Ive always been in favor of strong law enforcement, strong laws and an informed population knowing the dangers of drug use. The use it, tax it crowd has their heads in the sand. IMO.
    Excellent post!

    The liberals/libertarians simply do not understand the vast harm drugs cause. They kill people, ruin families, are directly related to crime, sap an initiative out of people, taint children for life and destroy society.

    We should privde harsher penalties for users rather than a slap on the wrist. We need to dry up the demand for illegal drugs. The argumnet that our jails would be full is nonsense. If we make murder and robbery legal then we don't need jails at all!

    And those that think that drug addicts only harm themselves are simply missing the big picture. Drug addicts harm everyone.

    The idea of making illegal drugs mainstream is horrific. Nothing could damage our society more than legalization of illegal drugs. The liberals/libertarians always try to make an analog with alcohol as if since we allow one very bad and damaging drug we should legalize them all.

    Drug use is an insidious crime, so insidious that its dangers are minimized by the liberals and libertarians.

    There is no doubt that the vast majority of Americans want to keep illegal drugs illegal. The biggest proponents of legalizing meth, cocaine, marijuana and heroin are the users.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    So, are you all ready to make alcohol illegal again, because any argument against most of the drugs that are illegal today can be made for alcohol as well.

    Lets see how well we can revert to a teetotaller society, and lock up all the drinkers.

    If not lets hear the argument why alcohol should be treated any differently than the other drugs and remain legal.
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  16. #45
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    So, are you all ready to make alcohol illegal again, because any argument against most of the drugs that are illegal today can be made for alcohol as well.
    Illegal drugs are illegal because they harm society. Because one harmful substance, alcohol, is legal does not justify making other harmful substances legal.

    The discussion isn't whether alcohol should be illegal, but rather whether drugs like meth, cocaine, marijuana, and heroin should be legal.

    Lets see how well we can revert to a teetotaller society, and lock up all the drinkers.
    What does that have to do with having crack houses on every corner, legal and welcoming children?

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