Off duty LEO carry in Indiana

This is a discussion on Off duty LEO carry in Indiana within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I am an LEO in Indiana and would like to know if any LEOs from Indiana have ever had any experiences with other LEOs while ...

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Thread: Off duty LEO carry in Indiana

  1. #1
    New Member Array glockjho15's Avatar
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    Off duty LEO carry in Indiana

    I am an LEO in Indiana and would like to know if any LEOs from Indiana have ever had any experiences with other LEOs while carrying off duty (i.e. pulled over, self-defense situations, etc.)? I am more interested in those whom, at the time of the interaction, had yet to be issued their Indiana gun permits. I have read the Indiana Code book and it says that law enforcement officers are permitted to carry without a permit (IC 35-47-2-1 and 35-47-2-2) also federally HR 218 applies also as far as I know. Just wondering if anyone had encountered any negative issues while carrying. Thanks in advance.


    P.S. I ask because I have just sent in my permit and am awaiting it to be issued, but would still like to carry off-duty for self defense. I have my own personal carry weapon (Glock 23 )

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  3. #2
    Member Array bstrawse's Avatar
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    When I worked in law enforcement in Indiana, I was stopped once while heading to some training in my personal vehicle. Was carrying a Glock in a shoulder holster at the time - I displayed my Badge + ID - was never asked for my permit.

    My understanding is the same as yours IIRC, your ID should be enough to legally carry a firearm under - at least as long as you remain in the State.

    b
    NRA Life Member | NRA & MADFI Instructor | Blog | Twitter | Facebook
    My views are my own - they may or may not reflect those of my employer.

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    Member Array 1713's Avatar
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    If that section in mention says youre good to go in Indiana then have at it. As far as HR218 goes, the way I understand it is that it covers you state to state but you still must follow that other states laws. ie. no carrying in schools, courts, etc

    Personally, I'd probably just ask the guys at work and see what they say about it.

  5. #4
    New Member Array glockjho15's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot guys I appreciate your responses so far, anyone else please add. Thanks ahead of time.

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    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    If you are a bona fide LEO then you don't need a permit. LEOSA, what you referred to as HR218, covers you anywhere in the US and all the US territories and possessions. Have you read LEOSA? It's pretty well explained in the statute. LEOSA has only been law for 5 years. You really should read it. It's hard to believe that every LEO hasn't read it by now.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1713 View Post
    the way I understand it is that it covers you state to state but you still must follow that other states laws. ie. no carrying in schools, courts, etc
    Sort of but not completely.
    Active LEOs and qualified retired LEOs do not have to follow the other states' laws. That's what LEOSA is all about. That's what the first line of LEOSA says. Think about it. Following your statement then LEOSA would not apply in IL because state law does not permit CCW. Following IL law then a LEO could not carry in IL. Clearly that is not the case and is contrary to what LEOSA says. LEOSA was passed to exempt LEOs/retirees from state laws. That's what the very first line of LEOSA is all about.
    If you read LEOSA you'll see there are only 2 situations where LEOs/retirees can be prevented from carrying. 1) A governmental agency can prohibit carrying on governmental owned property. If the government doesn't own it then they can't restrict carrying there. 2) A private person/entity can prohibit carrying on that person's/entity's property.
    183 FBINA

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    Member Array 1713's Avatar
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    (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—
    (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
    (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

    bold is mine

    Doesn't this mean that a state law couldn't stop you from carrying in, lets say a bar that is privately owned, but could restrict you from carrying in a county court? In PA courts and schools are out. I would consider each, especially the courts, "local government property" so I understand that LEOSA won't help me if I decide to carry in such place

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    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    LEOSA says as long as the government owns it they can restrict carrying in those places.
    The government cannot restrict LEOs/retirees from carrying in a bar unless the government owns the bar. Only the bar owner can prohibit under LEOSA. I don't know how many posts I've seen that have said that. Clearly they haven't read LEOSA.
    A school may or may not be covered under the government prohibition depending if the school is owned by the government. If it's a privately owned school then the school owner has to restrict.
    LEOSA has been law for over 5 yrs. Still we have guys interjecting their own interpretation of what LEOSA says without ever reading it. I've seen posts where guys say LEOs have to obey the same CCW laws as the CCW carrying in the state they're in. That's the most common interjection. They didn't read LEOSA. That's what LEOSA is all about. I've seen guys claim LEOs can't carry unless the firearm they're carrying was bought in an interstate shipment. Where they come up with that is beyond comprehension. They either haven't read LEOSA or if they have read it then they aren't capable of understanding what they're reading.
    183 FBINA

  9. #8
    Member Array LM2024's Avatar
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    HR 218 (LEOSA) Has been codified into Federal Law and is now officially:

    Title 18 of the U.S. Code, Section 926B and 926C for Retired Officers

    (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).
    (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that
    (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
    (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.
    (c) As used in this section, the term “qualified law enforcement officer” means an employee of a governmental agency who—
    (1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;
    (2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
    (3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;
    (4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;
    (5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
    (6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
    (d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.
    (e) As used in this section, the term `firearm'--
    (1) except as provided in this subsection, has the same meaning as in section 921 of this title;
    (2) includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act; and
    (3) does not include--
    (A) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);
    (B) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
    (C) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).
    (f) For the purposes of this section, a law enforcement officer of the Amtrak Police Department or a law enforcement or police officer of the executive branch of the Federal Government qualifies as an employee of a governmental agency who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest.'

  10. #9
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    LEOSA is a pretty simple law.

    It boggles my mind how someone could mess it up. I am often left scratching my head at some of the things that people say regarding LEOSA.

    FWIW: ispcapt covered it quite well, and is someone that I would consider an "expert" on the law. If I had a question regarding LEOSA he would be one of the first people I would ask via PM, or open forum, and take the answer as 100% correct. For those of you that don't know me, that statement says a lot right there.

    I've read his writing on LEOSA, in this and other forums, and usually concur with his assessment of the situation. I'm not a lawyer, but I am considered a LEO and fall under LEOSA. I use it to my advantage at every opportunity.

    What LEOSA doesn't cover, just for your information, is other laws regarding firearms. In short, the NJ Hollowpoint Bullet ban and magazine capacity restriction bans, like CA or NY. Those states may have passed laws exempting LEO's from any magazine capacity restriction, but I'm not sure.

    So, to sum it up: The local law says you cannot carry in a bar. The bar is private property. Hence you can carry in a bar unless the establishment says you cannot. The City Park is owned by a government entity and bans the carrying of weapons. Hence, you can't carry there. Oh, the state bans concealed carry. You can carry in that state, but only a ten round magazine because the state outlawed normal capacity magazines in their rush to prevent ordinary commoners from protecting themselves and infringing on the rights of it's felons.

    I have to argue with the idiots in my agency that teach LEOSA every year. They, like lots of people have it wrong, ispcapt has it right. I say this after consultation with a federal attorney, agency, and my own research. If I'm wrong, and I'm not, mea culpa.

    Biker

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    Member Array gglass's Avatar
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    I have several friends and family members who are Indiana LEO's, and most of them have gotten their lifetime LTCH. (You never know how long you will be a LEO, especially in these economic conditions.) The Democrat controlled General Assembly will not be extending the lifetime LTCH once it expires.
    "Let me guess... This isn't about the alcohol or tobacco."

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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    LEOSA or not, it is best to have the "back-up" of a carry permit/license. One scenario that comes to mind is your police ID being pulled by a supervisor or chief after a shooting or other incident that becomes a political hot potato.

    A supervisor or chief with an agenda could pull my police ID, but he/she could not pull a Texas CHL. That is handled by state civil servants who are above local political agendas. Also, if I managed to injure a hand or arm, and missed an annual qual, my agency would prohibit me from carrying on my ID until I am able to qual. It would not matter that I am functionally ambidextrous with most handguns; the rules of my qual require the use of both hands. Better to have that CHL as a back-up system.
    Last edited by Rexster; September 26th, 2009 at 05:44 AM. Reason: clarification

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    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Dose this cover NYC?

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    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    Dose this cover NYC?
    Yes.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, Tennessee Certified Instructor

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    On another forum, several NYCPD officers asserted that they do indeed know about LEOSA, and brother officers visiting from other locations are welcome to carry in NYC.

    Let's keep in mind that in the Northeast USA, crossing state lines is like crossing county lines down in Texas or Florida. LEOSA is most beneficial to LEOs in the Northeast, so they do know about it. FWIW, "professional courtesy" also tended to be quite strong in the NE USA before LEOSA. When traveling up there before LEOSA, more than one brother LEO wondered why on earth I would leave my guns at home in Texas. Of course, the reason was because I trusted NE USA prosecutors far less than fellow LEOs.

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    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    I carry from NJ into NYC all the time. No problems.

    Don't read to far into LEOSA, but you must know the laws of the jurisdiction (local, county and state) that you're carrying in.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

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