I almost shot an 11 year old boy - Page 10

I almost shot an 11 year old boy

This is a discussion on I almost shot an 11 year old boy within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Deuce130 Any kid? A 3 year old? A 5 year old? 8? 9? What age do you start blasting? I appreciate the ...

Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 67891011 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 155
Like Tree28Likes

Thread: I almost shot an 11 year old boy

  1. #136
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce130 View Post
    Any kid? A 3 year old? A 5 year old? 8? 9? What age do you start blasting? I appreciate the specific situation Zebra was in and I don't fault his actions. But, your statement about going home at the end of your shift, "no matter what" is a little disconcerting. You assumed a certain level of risk when you chose to become an LEO. By all means, you should take precaution to minimize the risk when you can, but "drawing down" and shooting first, asking questions later isn't the course of action I would expect for America's police forces.
    It does not matter what the mental capacity of the person with the gun is. Whether they know the gravity of their actions or not does not negate the lethal danger they pose to either the police officer or the community when someone is holding a lethal weapon in a threatening manner. Whether the person with the gun is 10 years old, or a 40 year old with the mental capacity of a 10 year old the threat is the same.

    It is certainly a tragedy when people like that lose their lives, but the police must respond to the threat posed by the individual wielding the gun and not what their age or mental capacity is.

    Obviously time, distance and circumstances may help the officer mitigate his response as to whether there is enough time, cover/protection for them to try less than lethal means to resolve the situation. But if the officer is faced with a potential immediate threat, they are going to act accordingly to keep from being killed by the threat.

    You may feel that part of police officers job is to sacrifice themselves, but I can assure you it is not. Those who do sacrifice themselves do so at their own discretion based on their own moral compunction and not because certain members of society expects them to.
    limatunes likes this.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."


  2. #137
    VIP Member
    Array 64zebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Panhandle of Texas
    Posts
    6,460
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce130 View Post
    As I posted previously, your actions that day, IMO, were totally appropriate. Given the situation, you did things prudently. My main issue was a subsequent poster's assertion about treating kids as adults. My assertion is that you shouldn't always do that. You should take the totality of the situation into account. It's just unsettling to me that it seems the threat threshold is the same for adults and children. Sure, a child with a gun can shoot you dead just as fast as a grown up, but it's far more likely that there's more to the story when a kid has what appears to be a real gun. I would hope that a cop would take those extra seconds to figure out what's going on before pulling the trigger on a child. Yes, those seconds might increase the risk to yourself but it could be worth it in the end. I guess it's going to be up to individual LEOs to make that determination. Hopefully those situations end as yours did.
    thats what was said and done, and thats what the subsequent poster means also
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  3. #138
    Member Array Deuce130's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Destin
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    deuce, you don't understand, the warrior mindset is what is taught now to officers to get them to realize when the SHTF they have to be a warrior (not merely a civil servant) to survive, thats it

    the only problem here is you don't understand the concept because you're not in the arena, and that's ok, just don't tell people they should have joined the Army when you don't understand
    Yes, I agree the Army comment was over the top. I apologize to you and SD976 for that part. We are going to disagree with on this aspect of law enforcement. That's fine. As a citizen, I would prefer a kindler, gentler police force. I realize the criminal element you deal with are anything but kind or gentle, however it seems the warrior spirit (militarization) of our police forces is affecting LEO interactions with law-abiding citizens in a negative manner. I just don't like where citizen-police relations are heading in this country and sometimes it comes out as anti-LEO.

  4. #139
    VIP Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    2,041
    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbass View Post
    So is everyone here in favor of taking away all toy guns from kids.? Thats what it sound like to me. No kid is safe with a toy gun? Are all you L.E.O.'s responding to this thread in your 20's? I know what year it is but, if thats how the police respond to kids playing with toy guns, i sure wont let mine play with them.
    I am in favor of not letting my kids play go waving Airsoft guns around on the property of a school.

    If the kids are in my back yard doing it, that's a lot different than some dumb kid pointing it at cars and people next to a school.
    Hakkaa päälle!

  5. #140
    VIP Member
    Array 64zebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Panhandle of Texas
    Posts
    6,460
    this job entails the requirement to change personalities depending on the call

    when we go to take a vandalism report when someone had a rock thrown through their window, that person gets treated way differently than the dirtbag that just beat the crap out of his girlfriend and is now in a standoff with responding officers; each situation has to be evaluated on a case by case basis
    the "militarization" of police (term is ridiculous IMO) is caused by the dirtbag's actions.....not the police, they are the ones that force the swat team, rifles, etc to be brought out and has nothing to do with the warrior mindset used when the fight actually takes place, they are different things

    I hate the situations involving an officer using the wrong mindset, tactics, force, etc on a person when its not needed, its unfortunate and reflects poorly on us all.
    Bark'n, sigmanluke and ironmike86 like this.
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  6. #141
    Member Array Deuce130's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Destin
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    this job entails the requirement to change personalities depending on the call

    when we go to take a vandalism report when someone had a rock thrown through their window, that person gets treated way differently than the dirtbag that just beat the crap out of his girlfriend and is now in a standoff with responding officers; each situation has to be evaluated on a case by case basis
    the "militarization" of police (term is ridiculous IMO) is caused by the dirtbag's actions.....not the police, they are the ones that force the swat team, rifles, etc to be brought out and has nothing to do with the warrior mindset used when the fight actually takes place, they are different things

    I hate the situations involving an officer using the wrong mindset, tactics, force, etc on a person when its not needed, its unfortunate and reflects poorly on us all.
    Well said. Your attitude is what we should all hope for in our police forces. And I do realize that the vast majority of police interactions end happily and peacefully, it's just the high profile ones that make the news. But, what's an internet forum without lively discussion?? Good luck, stay safe.

  7. #142
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    this job entails the requirement to change personalities depending on the call

    when we go to take a vandalism report when someone had a rock thrown through their window, that person gets treated way differently than the dirtbag that just beat the crap out of his girlfriend and is now in a standoff with responding officers; each situation has to be evaluated on a case by case basis
    the "militarization" of police (term is ridiculous IMO) is caused by the dirtbag's actions.....not the police, they are the ones that force the swat team, rifles, etc to be brought out and has nothing to do with the warrior mindset used when the fight actually takes place, they are different things

    I hate the situations involving an officer using the wrong mindset, tactics, force, etc on a person when its not needed, its unfortunate and reflects poorly on us all.
    These are wise words from an experienced, self controlled LEO. Each call I respond to during a shift requires me to be a different person, as 64zebra said. Those officers who treat each call and each person they come into contact with the same are either a danger to themselves, other officers they work with, or community relations.
    I LOVE my work and do it to the best of my abilities. Hopefully tomorrow my abilities are greater than today, I'm always learning, once you quit learning in this line of work.....it's time to get out.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  8. #143
    Member Array sd976's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    These are wise words from an experienced, self controlled LEO. Each call I respond to during a shift requires me to be a different person, as 64zebra said. Those officers who treat each call and each person they come into contact with the same are either a danger to themselves, other officers they work with, or community relations.
    I LOVE my work and do it to the best of my abilities. Hopefully tomorrow my abilities are greater than today, I'm always learning, once you quit learning in this line of work.....it's time to get out.
    Absolutely. Each and every call requires a different face and a different approach. I am certainly not going to draw on the little old lady who just got her purse snatched.

    We all need to have the warrior mindset. The mindset that you will not give in. The satkes are high in any "person with a gun" call.

  9. #144
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,220
    When I was growing up, you didn't call 911 because it didn't exist. If you wanted the police, you looked up the number in the phone book, or dialed the operator. The police got a lot less calls. Kids played with toy guns all the time and pointed them at just about anything and everything. Nobody thought anything of it because kids never got hold of REAL guns and shot themselves, their friends, total strangers, cops, or carried them to school to impress all their little friends or get revenge on a teacher they didn't like.

    It's a different world today. Things change and not always for the better. Sorry for your experience Zebra and thanks for your service. Such things can take a toll emotionally. I know. I'm glad it didn't turn out any worse than it could have.

    Stay safe.
    OD*, sd976 and Shawn89 like this.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  10. #145
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    7,043
    Excellent update for sure, but I really need to look at the dates on these threads... I was giving out likes on the first page, and started to rag on the guy giving 64zebra grief.....
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  11. #146
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,220
    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Excellent update for sure, but I really need to look at the dates on these threads... I was giving out likes on the first page, and started to rag on the guy giving 64zebra grief.....
    I thought it was a more recent incident also.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  12. #147
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,501
    Zebra, You did the right thing...People need to learn, that if you play with fire, you will get burned.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  13. #148
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Commiechusetts
    Posts
    1,642
    I know that it is an old thread but it is just as pertinent today as when the OP posted it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    When I was growing up, you didn't call 911 because it didn't exist. If you wanted the police, you looked up the number in the phone book, or dialed the operator. The police got a lot less calls. Kids played with toy guns all the time and pointed them at just about anything and everything. Nobody thought anything of it because kids never got hold of REAL guns and shot themselves, their friends, total strangers, cops, or carried them to school to impress all their little friends or get revenge on a teacher they didn't like.

    It's a different world today. Things change and not always for the better. Sorry for your experience Zebra and thanks for your service. Such things can take a toll emotionally. I know. I'm glad it didn't turn out any worse than it could have.

    Stay safe.
    True that as a kid (and I'm over 60 now) we all played with toy guns (that did NOT have blaze orange tips), but we knew enough NOT to point them at the police cruisers who drove by while we were playing cowboys and Indians!

    On the other hand, growing up with Parents who were anti-gun, thus no experience with real firearms until (and during) Summer Boy Scout Camp, one of my similarly situated friends called us into his Parents bedroom and retrieved a Japanese pistol (his Father confiscated in WWII from woman who tried to kill him) and we all played with it . . . not having a clue how to check it to see if it was loaded or not. I'm very lucky to be able to post this today as my stupidity back in my very early teens could have cost my or a friend's life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Zebra, You did the right thing...People need to learn, that if you play with fire, you will get burned.
    I was a PT PO for many years and a good friend who worked with me back then and is now a FT PO told me of two similar incidents to the OP's incident! As I told my friend, if he had shot the kid who pointed an Airsoft gun at him (NOT blaze-orange tipped), he should realize (as hard as this would be to do) that he would have been very justified as in both cases these idiots actually pointed it at the officer! Terrible if it happens but personal responsibility has to start at a young age . . . a teenager really needs to know better than that.

    BTW: I have a few Airsoft guns (one is a top name ~$200 model of the 1911) and they did not come with blaze-orange tips. I bought them new and have not modified them, they use compressed gas and you'd never know that they weren't real by merely looking at them from 10' away.
    NRA Instructor

  14. #149
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,158
    Yes, this is an old thread, but I hope this suggestion helps anyway...

    When we were in Somalia, it was very difficult to tell if a local had a walking stick or a rifle slung over their back from a distance. As a new 2nd Lt Platoon Leader, I learned real quick that you needed to have your binos with you whenever you crossed outside the wire. [As an aside, this is the reason to this day I prefer a scope with magnification on my rifles, instead of red dots. It's my last line of "friend or foe" identification before the point of no return, once the trigger is pulled.]

    When a LEO gets a call about "Kids pointing/displaying (what looks like a real) gun," as long as there are no reports of any shots fired, perhaps a good idea would be to stop some distance away, and get some good glass on the situation. True, you probably would not be able to tell the difference between an Airsoft and a real gun, but you may be able to tell the difference between a "toy" and a real gun. As long as there are no shots fired, and you are reasonably sure the "suspect" is a kid, you probably don't need to speed over there with guns a-blazing. Some intel can help prevent a tragedy.

    Of course, this is very much situation dependent. If you delay, and the gun turns out to be real, and the "kid" starts shooting people, you will be crucified for not running in there right away. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.
    Secret Spuk likes this.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  15. #150
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    3,064
    I have a buddy that killed a 12 year old playing with a realistic toy. He'll never be the same...

Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 67891011 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. 15 year old shot and killed, looks like he was a bad guy
    By TN_Mike in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: February 8th, 2011, 11:21 PM
  2. BAD: 21-year-old shot to death in
    By XD in SC in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: August 21st, 2008, 04:58 PM
  3. 4 year old shot with CCW holders gun
    By GOPony in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 10th, 2008, 09:15 AM
  4. 15 year old shot at hospital
    By buckeye .45 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: February 21st, 2007, 12:45 AM
  5. 16 year old BG Shot in Irving, TX
    By Blinky in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: April 10th, 2006, 11:30 AM

Search tags for this page

babe11year

,

boy getting almost shot

,

boy self sho

Click on a term to search for related topics.