I almost shot an 11 year old boy

This is a discussion on I almost shot an 11 year old boy within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by 64zebra do you have the proper mindset to see a threat and react no matter how old they are? beautiful blonde babe, ...

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  1. #76
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    do you have the proper mindset to see a threat and react no matter how old they are? beautiful blonde babe, 11 year old kid, 70 year old in a wheelchair...they can all kill you just the same, if you don't have this mindset you're not seeing the full picture
    Yup. A gun drawn and illegally threatening me is just that. Age, gender, clothing maker are all irrelevant, at that point.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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  3. #77
    New Member Array vica153's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    beautiful blonde babe, 11 year old kid, 70 year old in a wheelchair...they can all kill you just the same, if you don't have this mindset you're not seeing the full picture
    If some random person called and said the babe had an m4, the kid had a grenade, and the person in the wheelchair had a rocket launcher, would I draw on them without actually seeing the m4,grenade, rpg.....nope. Would you tell a private citizen they had reason to draw? Thats not the point here anyway.

    CCW is irrelevant. You're a LEO and obviously play by a different set of "rules". I think you rolled in a little hotter than necessary. That is all.

    I'm not the one on the streets everyday putting myself in harms way. No one was hurt. Alls well that ends well. Kumbaya.

  4. #78
    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    I agree with the police officer. No one should be obligated by their employment to allow a gun to be pointed at them without a deadly force response.

    In addition, my opinion is no private citizen should be obligated to allow a gun to be pointed at them without a deadly force response.

    Someone pointing a gun at me in Missouri is involved in felony assault. If exposed and I believe I am in danger, I am responding until I can get to cover.

    Two or three years ago three high school juniors decided to paint ball a few houses in town. Unfortunately, my 86 year old mother's house was hit. The police caught them. I told one of their dads that some people might have shot back. His response, "You are not the first to tell me that. And I understand. It won't happen again with my boy."

    I am pretty sure every kid in town with a paint ball gun heard from their parents that people can and will shoot back. That is the way it should be in a properly functioning society. Parents teaching kids using real life examples known first hand to the child.

    For me this forum serves as a place for me to keep learning. I thank the OP for bringing this up. I am thankful everyone is safe.

  5. #79
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vica153 View Post
    If some random person called and said the babe had an m4, the kid had a grenade, and the person in the wheelchair had a rocket launcher, would I draw on them without actually seeing the m4,grenade, rpg.....nope. Would you tell a private citizen they had reason to draw? Thats not the point here anyway.

    CCW is irrelevant. You're a LEO and obviously play by a different set of "rules". I think you rolled in a little hotter than necessary. That is all.

    I'm not the one on the streets everyday putting myself in harms way. No one was hurt. Alls well that ends well. Kumbaya.
    "rolled in a little hot"?
    Hmm, the call was about a juvie with a gun at a school, pointing it at another kid. I'm not a LEO but I would roll in hot if I was.
    A few months ago there was a similar call at my local PD, punk brandishing in gun and making threats in a pizzeria(teen hang-out) right near the high school, just after school dismissal. Police respond, see the suspect,with the gun still in hid hand, now outside in a parking lot at a crowded shopping center. The responding officer draws his duty weapon and orders the suspect to stop and drop the gun. Suspect turns, weapon still in hand to face the officer and spews a string of obsenities at the officer. Officer fires on suspect, hitting him twice. Only later does the responding officer find out the gun was an airsoft with the orange tip removed. Suspect survives and faces more charges, in addition to his violent criminal record that is already several pages long. By the way the suspect is 19.
    The officer was suspended with pay while an investigation was conducted, he was cleared of an wrongdoing. The local media tried to make a circus out of the incident, but the public made it clear that we don't like it. The officer has a binder full of letters of support from the residents of the city, one of those bears my signature.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by vica153 View Post
    If some random person called and said the babe had an m4, the kid had a grenade, and the person in the wheelchair had a rocket launcher, would I draw on them without actually seeing the m4,grenade, rpg.....nope. Would you tell a private citizen they had reason to draw?
    if the private citizen had been notified that these people had these things via EBS, TV/radio, etc and warned about it.....they need to call 911 if they see them....unless they are actively presenting a threat to the citizen then its a different ball game, do what you have to do
    If LEO see these people after being reported, then absolutely the LEO should draw/take appropriate action....its our job and sworn duty

    Quote Originally Posted by vica153
    CCW is irrelevant.
    its completely relevant....you are making comments on what to do/not to do and I was wanting to know if you carry a firearm with you when out and about/CCW so as to see into your mindset, very relevant indeed since you joined the discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vica153
    You're a LEO and obviously play by a different set of "rules".
    very true, hence the reason I took the action that I did

    Quote Originally Posted by vica153
    I think you rolled in a little hotter than necessary. That is all.
    very debatable topic
    I feel I reacted/performed as trained
    would you have liked me to react the same if it was your kid that was having the gun pointed at him on the playground?
    would you like the way I reacted if you were in your front yard mowing the grass & the kid comes by pointing it at you?
    would you want me to wait until he shot at you then come in the way I did after the fact? I'm not being a smartypants, just throwing out some things for you to think on, and why we react the way we do.
    LEO/CHL
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    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  7. #81
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vica153 View Post
    If some random person called and said the babe had an m4, the kid had a grenade, and the person in the wheelchair had a rocket launcher, would I draw on them without actually seeing the m4,grenade, rpg.....nope.
    If a person called in all of that, then I think there would be a pervading assumption amongst the staff in the department: that this person was smoking something really bad. M4, grenade, rocket launcher, held and wielded by a "babe", a kid and a disabled person. Highly likely to be a suspect call, I'd think, but then I don't get such calls. Wouldn't know, for certain.

    Still, try to understand: when the goal is to keep the peace, to ensure that reports of legitimate threats are handled accordingly, it's fair to say that folks are gonna get what they get if the arriving officers do actually find the claimed threat in action (drawing of guns).

    "Hotter" than necessary? Okay, then. When the gun was drawn and the officer believed the threat was overt and immediate, what alternative action other than pointing the service pistol at the threat would you think would be a viable response? And, had it turned out the little cretin was instead of 14yr old 'banger with an actual pistol and a wish to show his homeys how tough he was, while the officer was stepping down the response a notch then what do you think would likely happen to that officer?

    Keep in mind that the call was about someone wielding guns against others ... and that's what was found. I don't think it's unreasonable for officers to respond with guns drawn in such a situation, particularly if as they're arriving they see some guns in the hands of people, with one or more guns being drawn as a person turns toward the officer(s).

    I'm a cynic and a realist, often bouncing between both ends. I simply hate abuses by officials, and that includes officers. But, street cops have a very difficult job. If there's a better way to handle a "man with gun" call than what was done, I'd like someone to suggest it, one that won't get cops killed if and when the majority of such calls turn out to be a legitimate disturbed/angry person with a firearm he/she is utterly prepared to use, instead of what this one call turned out to be. In this case, it's hard to see how things could have worked out better: thoughtless kids got corrected; nobody got shot; the cops went home that night; and the parents are now involved to assist in guiding the kids down a path with eyes wide open. That's win-win, no matter how you slice it.

    "Kumbaya" ain't what it's about, friend. This is the street. There are simply things that one doesn't do on the street, anymore, if one wants to stay alive. Pointing firearms at police officers is, quite simply, one of those things. ANYONE's kids should know this. Anyone should. Those who don't get it, on the street, are highly likely to be the bad guys. It ain't rocket science.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #82
    Member Array ImaShepardRU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vica153 View Post
    You're a LEO and obviously play by a different set of "rules". I think you rolled in a little hotter than necessary. That is all. I'm not the one on the streets everyday putting myself in harms way. No one was hurt. Alls well that ends well. Kumbaya.
    LEO's do play by a slightly different set of rules. When you are identified as an LEO on the street, some of these punks will shoot (at) you just because of that fact, to 'make their bones'.
    "Rolled in a little hot"?
    Think about drawing from a holster to beat a gun that is already drawn and pointing at you. Not gonna happen.
    You better be ready to meet force with force.
    No, you are not on the streets, putting yourself in harms way.
    Thank those that are.
    No one was hurt BECAUSE 64Z was as rational as he could be under the circumstances.
    He was simply relating what undoubtedly was a tense (and close) call; and telling anyone who would choose to listen how fast things can go bad on the street IRL. For CCW's or LEO's.

    Good job 64Z, glad it did end well. For everyone.
    This is the law;
    The purpose of fighting is to win.
    There is no possible victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental. - John Steinbeck

  9. #83
    Member Array ImaShepardRU's Avatar
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    CCW9mm; you and me was thinkin' and typin' the same thoughts.
    This is the law;
    The purpose of fighting is to win.
    There is no possible victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental. - John Steinbeck

  10. #84
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    I didn't let on to the kid or mom what I was feeling but lets just say after leaving the house I had to stop a few blocks away to sit for a few minutes, do some more combat breathing, and take a drink before going back to my previous call.
    I like Wild Turkey myself, but I find Henry McKenna goes down smoother.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I like Wild Turkey myself, but I find Henry McKenna goes down smoother.


    mine was iced tea
    LEO/CHL
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  12. #86
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    In this case, maybe Zebra did “roll in a little too hot” of course we have had the chance to read and re-read this several times in the relative safety of our own homes. IMO, Zebra did not overreact, he drew his weapon and ordered the child to drop his. He gave the kid a chance to comply. Of course he could have not drawn his weapon and waited to see what would happen. That would very simply be a gamble with his life. Then the headlines could be “Officer killed by a 11 year old”. In the safety of our homes, we would be reading, re-reading and discussing this story, wondering *** was Zebra thinking. Why didn’t he draw his gun?

    Hindsight is wonderful, too bad we can see it before an incident.

    Is it fair or “right” that a LEO points a firearm at a child? NO, it isn’t. Is this LEO fault? NO! Parents have to take a hard look at how they raise their children. It isn’t fair that parents place a LEO in that position.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  13. #87
    Member Array monsterbass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopard125 View Post
    Monsterbass,

    What would you do if the kid was at the mall with his air soft?
    I assume you carry.
    I do carry. That doesnt mean i would draw on him.

  14. #88
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopard125 View Post
    Monsterbass,

    What would you do if the kid was at the mall with his air soft?
    I assume you carry.
    Not applicable as a question though.

    Civilians are not cops.
    Civilians drawing down randomly on people is not allowed, even if they did see some person walking around in a mall with a firearm or firearm facsimile.

    Police though they are imbued with legal rights of action, 'powers of police', that are very different and above that of what is deemed reasonable and lawful as in relation to civilians.

    If, being not a police, drove up on a kid say in my driveway or at a mall parking lot and noted him handling a firearm of some _indeterminable_ in the immediate moment...I would choose to NOT stop my car there muchless get out of it. Go elsewhere and park, if not contact the cops or possibly Paul Blart.

    How a police responds and is called to respond is completely and totally different than that of Joe or Jane Blow-Civilian.

    - Roscoe P. Coltrane
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #89
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post


    mine was iced tea
    Yea, Long Island Iced Tea.

    Long Island Iced Tea recipe
    The Long Island Iced Tea (LIIT) is the basis of many elaborate mixed-drinks. It dates to the 70's, named after the continental USA's largest island Long Island, in New York. Although it doesn't contain tea, it's taste is similar. The drink sits in the top 5 of most popular cocktails and is regularly mentioned or seen served in television and films (worthy mentions are The Simpsons, Sex and the City and Cruel Intentions).

    serve in Collins Glass

    1 part vodka
    1 part 1800® Tequila
    1 part rum
    1 part gin
    1 part triple sec
    1 1/2 parts sweet and sour mix
    1 splash Coca-Cola®

    Mix ingredients together over ice in a glass. Pour into a shaker and give one brisk shake. Pour back into the glass and make sure there is a touch of fizz at the top. Garnish with lemon.

  16. #90
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Zebra you done good.
    You almost shot an eleven year, but you didn't. He did stupid things and is still breathing. The only reason he is still breathing is because you exercised restraint. He might not have been so lucky with another officer. Hopefully he learns from this. Don't get too hung up on this. This one was a toy. That does not mean the next one will be, or the one after that, or the one after that.
    Stay Safe!
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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