Must-read cw2 thread from arfcom

Must-read cw2 thread from arfcom

This is a discussion on Must-read cw2 thread from arfcom within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This is a thread started on another forum and carried on to yet ANOTHER forum (where I got it). It deals with a LEO training ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Must-read cw2 thread from arfcom

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802

    Exclamation Must-read cw2 thread from arfcom

    This is a thread started on another forum and carried on to yet ANOTHER forum (where I got it). It deals with a LEO training event recently that was extremely disturbing to the officer posting the thread. Read it and I think you'll see why and agree. All emphasis (bold, underlines etc) are mine (ExSoldier).


    AR15.com ^ | Sep 25, 2009 | An Ohio State LEO
    Posted on September 27, 2009

    This is my first post. I have been lurking, reading and learning for about 2 years. I hope there are many others like me. Thank you all for the wit and wisdom you have imparted. You are a great asset to this Nation. Now onto my post...

    So here's what got me thinking. I'm in State law enforcement in Ohio. I was at one of our annual 2 day training events. We were in a classroom session on Domestic terrorism. The speaker was our agencies liaison with the FBI on the Joint Terrorism Task Force that was set up after 9/11. They broke it into two categories; home grown terrorists influenced by Al Qaeda and the like; and everybody else. So in the first category was some of the post 9/11 arrestees from Ohio like Christopher Paul and Imam Fawaz Damra, and then the second group included all white supremest groups, militia groups, people with anti-government sentiment, and anyone else who was overly religious. This part was nothing new to me, they have gone over this a few years prior.

    Then came the trouble...The instructor started talking about indicators which could be used to warn us of these peoples presence. Most made sense, like if the guy has a swastika on his forehead. Some others covered more discreet body markings. I didn't have any problem with this, but then he shows us a slide of some bumper stickers. One says, "The UN is not our friend!" and the second says, "Exercise your rights, or you'll lose them." He goes on to say that these are good indicators that the person in this car is anti-government and probably violent.

    Now, I'm not one to let this slip by unchallenged. So I raise my hand and say, " Are you saying that these are possible indicators or probable indicators. He says, "probable." I take issue with this, "I say." "First, if you know anything about the UN, they aren't our friend. They also aren't our government, so I hardly see how that would make this person anti-government. And the second statement seems fairly innocuous. I would think that both the extreme left and the extreme right would say that a right not exercised is easily lost. So I would agree with both of those statements and I hardly think that makes me a threat." He looks right at me and says half jokingly, "maybe we should add you to our list." There was a bit of an awkward silence as we stared at each other. Then he just moved on.

    Later he showed more stickers that said things like, "I believe in the Bible", and abortion is wrong" At one point he showed a picture of some sort of Aryan Nation marking and said to me, "do you have one of these?" I was fuming.

    At a later break I consulted some of the other guys, of which there were about 50. Some said they thought the guy was way out of line and some others said they thought I should have just let it go. Everyone seemed to agree he was serious. I later made the point to him that by his measure our forefathers would be suspect. I guess at that point it struck me. This guy draws no distinction between the person who blows himself up for Allah, and the guy who doesn't like big government. Since he was trained by the Feds, I must assume they feel the same.

    It seems like most of the discussion and preparation here revolves around some degree or another of SHTF. I feel like that is well covered and thought out. I don't want to debate about the likeliness of one scenario or another, instead I would relish your thoughts on the scenario that concerns me the most, and which I think is the more difficult one to prepare for. You are suddenly that domestic terrorist, not because you have committed terrorist acts, but because of what you believe. They are coming for you. Now survive.

    You can imagine what's stacked against you. You have to survive long enough to turn public sentiment in your favor. Not unlike our forefathers and ultimately you must save your country.

    Here is what I think you have going for you. The Feds simply don't have enough resources, but could remedy that with foreign help. They rely heavily on local law enforcement which at least in my area will give them little support. State law enforcement is about half and half IMO.

    Sorry for such a meaty first post. I greatly respect your opinions.
    ************************************************** *
    ExSoldier's Final Note: Anybody who has ever read the trilogy by my friend Matt Bracken (Enemies Foreign and Domestic Web Site) will recognize a very frightening parallel here and that trilogy was fiction! I among others are mentioned in the acknowledgements of those three books. Matt Bracken used to joke that now I'd joined him on the DHS "ENEMIES LIST!" LOL I no longer think it's very much of a joke, but I'm proud to be there if my meager contributions to those three books are what lands me on that list! MOLON LABE.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Near St. Louis, Missouri
    Posts
    2,837
    I say the OP has met the enemy.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    2,753
    Sounds like yet another contrived rant, with all the credibility of a chain letter. Since no source or verifiable info is given, its authenticity is highly unlikely. This kind of thing is posted all the time, in everything from social networking sites to other bulletin boards and forums. Sounds a lot like Bircher literature.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array TucAzRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    792
    I say that is about right.. Nothing new in that post at all.. We have known this for a long time, but it has become more public in the last year... I'm sure most of us on this forum would be considered a terrorist,.. Sad,.. We love our country more them most,.. there-in lyes the problem... Those that would stand up and fight for the freedom that our forefathers fought for is a threat to those that want to make slaves out of people,... NOT ON MY WATCH!!!

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802
    Well y'all might be right EXCEPT for two verifiable and separate incidents:

    #1 a few weeks ago a motorist in LOUISIANA was pulled over and detained for 30 minutes based on NOTHING else besides his bumper sticker: DON'T TREAD ON ME Subsequently it was discovered that an official memo had been circulated to all LEO agencies nationwide by another STATE agency but at the behest of the Director of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano.

    #2 You knock the John Birch Society but when the USSR's KGB files were opened in the 1990s, those files totally verified the extent of the communist infiltration into our societal infrastructure. Especially in HOLLYWOOD so it looks as if that nutty old drunk Joe McCarthy was spot on correct. When I was on active duty I once asked the G2 of the 9th Infantry Division if being a member of the John Birch Society could be cause for me to lose my TS SBI (Top Secret Special Background Investigation) security clearance? Know what he said? Heck NO! The John Birch Society specifically requested a full on US Senate Investigation of themselves when they first got started back in the 1950s. They came out squeaky clean then and have in every other Congressional investigation since. The Congress finally learned that they themselves have a lot more to hide than the Birchers and so they quit that line of attack on a hated enemy. Now it's always easier to ridicule and marginalize. Until verification pops up.... and it always does....
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802
    Came from the AR15.com forum, originally. Here is the thread from FREE REPUBLIC where I got it from. You ought to read THOSE replies.

    MUST-READ CW2 THREAD FROM ARFCOM
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #7
    Member Array LM2024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    249
    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    Sounds like yet another contrived rant, with all the credibility of a chain letter. Since no source or verifiable info is given, its authenticity is highly unlikely. This kind of thing is posted all the time, in everything from social networking sites to other bulletin boards and forums. Sounds a lot like Bircher literature.
    +1

    I don't even see this at the largest LEO forum, Officer.com

    Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com - Powered by vBulletin

    And I never saw some memo like that at any roll call or during the academy. We had our JTF liason FBI agent teach our class in the academy and there was no mention at all about this.

    Seems like more paranoid stuff to me.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    2,753
    If it wasn't all hearsay, Ex, I'd put more credence in it. But it's always the nebulous third-party source we hear about, and there's no fact-checking possible.

    But, on the other hand, you may be right, and law enforcement officials are doing more profiling for fanatics. After all, it's the religious nutcases who in almost every instance make up the ranks of the terrorists (domestic and otherwise), so it's probably wise to be wary of them. Especially those who have been advocating violent overthrow of our Constitutional republic, and are just waiting for the voice of god to stir them to action.

    I do take great exception to TucAzRider's comment that most of us on this forum would be considered terrorists. I think the vast majority of the people who participate here are pretty solid citizens. Personally, I've held high-level clearances and had my background checked plenty of times. Not to say that it's not possible that there are a few wackos amongst us.

    As you've pointed out plenty of times, though, Ex, there are those right here in our own nation who, through the fervor of their delusions, and egged on by the rantings of charismatic leaders, are all too likely to snap and do us harm.

    We would be wise to be vigilant and prepared should such dire circumstances arise.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802
    rodc13: The LEO stop in Louisiana did happen and it was verified. The memo contents were retracted by Napolitano within 48 hours so THAT was verified at the source.

    I think that TucAZRider's comment is spot on: Many of us are or will be considered potential terrorists for our belief in the supremacy of the US Constitution as typified by a strong belief that the 2nd Amendment is an individual as opposed to a collective right pushed by many in government and in the law enforcement communities, as well as higher level academic circles.

    Profile criteria (see how many apply to you or your friends): Former or current military? Combat Arms? Number of Form 4473s completed within the past five years? 2nd Amendment activist (frequent letter writer to Congress and or local paper editorials), CCW permit status? Past status? Permits in multiple states?Affiliations: NRA (Life Member or Certified Instructor?), CCRKBA, GOA, JPFO, SAF etc., Subscriptions: Gun magazines, group memberships: USPSA, IDPA, IPSC; active competitor? Safety Officer Status? Political affiliations? Religious habits? Steady church goer? Bible Study participant? Sunday School? Political affiliations of the Pastor? (Bet they caught on to this one after Jeremiah Wright). The list can go on and on. I'll bet if you run that by DHS they'll affirm. And then they may add YOU to their lists if you're not already there. Old joke from the 1970s: If you submit a FOIA request for your FBI file, they'll tell you you don't have one then they'll START one on you!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802
    Here's an older thread from here that also addresses this: http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ml#post1236957
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    N/E Florida
    Posts
    3,317
    What about a terrorist PRMITT STICKER GOOD FROM 2001-2051,nobag limit no size limit ; )
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
    H/D

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802
    From the Horses Mouth:

    Transcription of the Video: Interview with Yuri Bezmenov (ex-KGB)
    Weeks ago I published a video (here the full video, and here some excerpts) of a former KGB propagandist called Yuri Bezmenov with an interview he gave to Edward Griffin on “Soviet Disinformation” in 1983.

    Edward Griffin is the author of The Creature From Jekyll Island, an in depth analysis of the Federal Reserve. If you want to understand the depth of this socioeconomic crisis and the overall agenda into which it all fits, you MUST read this extremely readable book.


    Now I found a “semi” full transcription of the video.
    Enjoy!!
    ----------||---------

    ED: Well, you spoke before about “ideological subversion” and that’s a phrase that I’m afraid some Americans don’t understand. When the Soviets use the phrase “ideological subversion” what do they mean by it?

    YURI: Ideological subversion is the process which is legitimate and open. You can see it with your own eyes. All American mass media has to do is unplug their bananas from their ears, open up their eyes, and they can see it. It has nothing to do with espionage. I know that intelligence gathering looks more romantic. It sells more deodorants through advertising. That's probably why your Hollywood producers are so crazy about James Bond types of films. But in reality the main emphasis of the KGB is NOT in the area of intelligence at all. According to my opinion, and the opinions of many defectors of my caliber, only about 15% of time, money, and manpower is spent on espionage as such. The other 85% is a slow process which we call either ideological subversion, active measures, or psychological warfare. What it basically means is: to change the perception of reality of every American that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country.

    It's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and is divided into four basic stages. The first stage being "demoralization". It takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology of [their] enemy. In other words, Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least 3 generation of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism; American patriotism. The result? The result you can see -- most of the people who graduated in the 60's, dropouts or half-baked intellectuals, are now occupying the positions of power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, and educational systems. You are stuck with them. They are contaminated. They are programmed to think and react to certain stimuli in a certain pattern [alluding to Pavlov]. You can not change their mind even if you expose them to authentic information. Even if you prove that white is white and black is black, you still can not change the basic perception and the logic of behavior.
    In other words [for] these people the process of demoralization is complete and irreversible. To rid society of these people you need another 15 or 20 years to educate a new generation of patriotically minded and common sense people who would be acting in favor and in the interests of United States society.

    ED: And yet these people who have been programmed and as you say [are] in place and who are favorable to an opening with the Soviet concept - these are the very people who would be marked for extermination in this country?

    YURI: Most of them, yes. Simply because the psychological shock when they will see in [the] future what the beautiful society of EQUALITY and social justice means in practice, obviously they will revolt. They will be very unhappy [and] frustrated people, and Marxist-Leninist regime does not tolerate these people. Obviously they will join the [ranks] of dissenters; dissidents. Unlike the present United States there will be no place for dissent in future Marxist-Leninist America. [Now] you can get popular like Daniel Elsburg and filthy rich like Jane Fonda for being a dissident [and] for criticizing your Pentagon. In [the] future these people will simply be [he makes a squishy noise] squashed like cockroaches for criticizing the government. Nobody is going to pay them nothing for their beautiful [and] noble ideas of EQUALITY. This they don't understand and it will be the greatest shock for them, of course.
    The demoralization process in the United States is basically completed already for the last 25 years. Actually, it's over fulfilled because demoralization now reaches such areas where not even Comrade Andropov and all his experts would even dream of such tremendous success. Most of it is done by Americans to Americans thanks to lack of moral standards. As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore. A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him, even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents and pictures. ...he will refuse to believe it until he's going to receive a kick in his fat bottom. When a military [or Joint Terrorism Task Force] boot crashes his balls, then he will understand, but not before that. That's the tragedy of the situation of demoralization.

    The next stage is destabilization.... It only takes 2 to 5 years to destabilize a nation. This time what matters is essentials; economy, foreign relations, [and] defense systems. And you can see it quite clearly that in some... sensitive areas such as defense and [the] economy, the influence of Marxist-Leninist ideas in the United States is absolutely fantastic. I could never believe it 14 years ago when I landed in this part of the world that the process will go that fast.

    Most of the American politicians, media, and educational system train another generation of people who think they are living at the peacetime. False. United States is in a state of war; undeclared, total war against the basic principles and foundations of this system. And the initiator of this war is not Comrade Andropov of course - it's the system. However, ridiculous it may sound, [it is] the world Communist system, or the world Communist conspiracy. Whether I scare some people or not, I don't give a hoot. If you're not scared by now, nothing can scare you.

    ED: Okay, so what do we do? What is your recommendation to the American people?

    YURI: Well, the immediate thing that comes to mind is, of course, there must be a very strong national effort to educate people in the spirit of REAL patriotism, number one. Number two, to explain [to] them the real danger of socialist, communist, welfare state, Big Brother government.... The moment at least part of [the] United States population is convinced that the danger is real, they have to FORCE their government, and I'm not talking about sending letters, signing petitions, and all this beautiful, noble activity, I'm talking about FORCING [the] United States government to stop aiding Communism....and it is very easy to do; no credits, no technology, no money, no political or diplomatic recognition... (...)

    Source:Screw the Jewish War on Terror, We Need a War on American Ignorance
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #13
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    No surprise. The enemy is here. Be ready.

  14. #14
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Rocky Mountain High in Colorado
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    No surprise. The enemy is here. Be ready.
    The enemy is not only here but in the Whitehouse.

    During the campaign he said "If you want to know where I stand look at the people that I associate with" then he went on to list well thought of people.

    Now that he is in power look at the people he associates and selects for top government posts, avowed communists and far left wing extremists.


    I guess DHS can add me to the list again

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    1,231
    ...till you have a secret service agent show up when your working your not on on a watchlist.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. XD owners--have you read this thread?
    By Ram Rod in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: February 21st, 2008, 12:23 PM
  2. Thread from another forum: Worth the read
    By Tubby45 in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: June 22nd, 2006, 06:04 PM
  3. Off topic ( political ) thread link from THR Please read everyone
    By Redneck Repairs in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: June 7th, 2006, 04:18 PM