LEOSA should it cover MP'S as well

This is a discussion on LEOSA should it cover MP'S as well within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; just a question to ask to slove a debate here in iraq a reason would be great thank you...

View Poll Results: LEOSA should it apply to MP'S of all branches?

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  • yes

    22 51.16%
  • no

    21 48.84%
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Thread: LEOSA should it cover MP'S as well

  1. #1
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    LEOSA should it cover MP'S as well

    just a question to ask to slove a debate here in iraq a reason would be great thank you
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  3. #2
    Member Array M203Sniper's Avatar
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    Two reasons.

    1. It is a horrible law that should never have been written. Setting a group of civilians above another because of their job is idiotic and a direct violation of the second amendment. How about "only garbage men can carry in all 50 states" does that make any sense?

    2. MP's are not the police. The UCMJ and The Posse Comitatus Act dictate that they not be as well as every military reg dictating the use of force/powers of arrest and carrying of a firearm in an official capacity for the DOD.
    "Words can be as lethal as bullets; Choose them carefully, Aim them well & Use them sparingly."

  4. #3
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M203Sniper View Post
    Two reasons.

    1. It is a horrible law that should never have been written. Setting a group of civilians above another because of their job is idiotic and a direct violation of the second amendment. How about "only garbage men can carry in all 50 states" does that make any sense?

    2. MP's are not the police. The UCMJ and The Posse Comitatus Act dictate that they not be as well as every military reg dictating the use of force/powers of arrest and carrying of a firearm in an official capacity for the DOD.
    thats a good point i will have to add that to my defence the next time i speak to these poeple thanks
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  5. #4
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    I went with no. Because MP's generally use the UCMJ and base orders as their guidelines, and those don't really apply to people not in the military. Also, Posse Comitatus prevents the military from being used as police against civilians.

    FWIW, here are the requirements from wikipedia:

    Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    In order to be covered as a "qualified law enforcement officer," a person must meet each and every one of the following criteria: He or she must be (1) "an employee of a governmental agency"; (2) "authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law"; (3) have "statutory powers of arrest"; (4) "authorized by the agency to carry a firearm"; (5) "not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency"; (6) "meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm"; and (7) "not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm." In addition, the privilege conferred by the law applies only when the individual "is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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  6. #5
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Get out of your branch come into the Coast Guard and become a boarding officer! Click me for info

  7. #6
    Member Array CCWINNC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M203Sniper View Post
    Two reasons.

    1. It is a horrible law that should never have been written. Setting a group of civilians above another because of their job is idiotic and a direct violation of the second amendment. How about "only garbage men can carry in all 50 states" does that make any sense?

    2. MP's are not the police. The UCMJ and The Posse Comitatus Act dictate that they not be as well as every military reg dictating the use of force/powers of arrest and carrying of a firearm in an official capacity for the DOD.


    I agree that the law is not favorable to the majority, however if it allows more good guys to carry weapons in areas that are sheep herding grounds then I am for it. The more trained good guys out their the better overall. Along that same lines I am sure that the MP's are much more proficient at there weapons than a large segment of the civilian law enforcement officers.

    On your point number 2. As far as on military installations (ie fort Hood) they are the Police. And hold full jurisdiction with said position. And seeing that many of the military installation in the US are larger then the surrounding city they do hold quite of bit if authority.

    Now there jurisdiction ends at the gate but the crime does not.
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  8. #7
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuban11182 View Post
    Get out of your branch come into the Coast Guard and become a boarding officer! Click me for info
    why ?????
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  9. #8
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    I threw a yes in. As I understand LEOSA, it is not about arresting people or exercising other Law Enforcement duties, it is about allowing people to carry concealed weapons without getting a patchwork of permits. I, personally, think a law like LEOSA should apply to all citizens, not just law enforcement officers.

    With that premise in mind, I think as many "types" of people as possible should be included in such legislation.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array A1C Lickey's Avatar
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    I guess I'm the only yes so far.....
    The way I see it MP's (and Security Forces, and whatever the Navy calls theirs') do provide law enforcement functions on base for military personnel. Why shouldn't they be covered under this law?

    Secondly, it's a way for the camel to get his nose under the tent. Start with MP's, then maybe we can push to all military. If that happens we've just increased the number of people who will carry nationwide. That will be just one more thing on our side to fight for nationwide carry; "...well LEO's and military can do it and we haven't seen blood in the streets yet..."

    Now for the legalese, correct me if I'm wrong, but while I was studying the PDG last night I saw something about NCO's having the ability to make arrests if necessary. And I know we can take part in the incarceration of personnel.
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  11. #10
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    what about this my friend sent it to me with a small quote of define the mp's job and then read this:
    Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 926B(a) states in relevant part that "notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has be shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce..." Subdivision (c) states that a qualified law enforcement officer means an employee of a governmental agency who "(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest: (2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm; (3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency; (4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm; (5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and (6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm." Subsection (d) defines identification as photographic identification issued by the governmental agency which employs the individual as a law enforcement officer.

    remeber apprehend is the military trem for arrest

    ap·pre·hend (pr-hnd)
    v. ap·pre·hend·ed, ap·pre·hend·ing, ap·pre·hends
    v.tr.
    1. To take into custody; arrest: apprehended the murderer.
    2. To grasp mentally; understand: a candidate who apprehends the significance of geopolitical issues.
    3. To become conscious of, as through the emotions or senses; perceive.
    v.intr.
    To understand something.

    ar·rest (-rst)
    v. ar·rest·ed, ar·rest·ing, ar·rests
    v.tr.
    1. To stop; check: a brake that automatically arrests motion; arrested the growth of the tumor.
    2. To seize and hold under the authority of law.
    3. To capture and hold briefly (the attention, for example); engage.
    v.intr.
    To undergo cardiac arrest: The patient arrested en route to the hospital.
    n.
    1.
    a. The act of detaining in legal custody: the arrest of a criminal suspect.
    b. The state of being so detained: a criminal under arrest.
    2. A device for stopping motion, especially of a moving part.
    3. The act of stopping or the condition of being stopped.
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damion View Post
    why ?????
    why do we have the ability to? 14USC89 we also have Custom's Authority from time to time. We have the ability to arrest if a Federal Crime has been commited.

    Why come into the Coast Guard? it's better JK

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperKnight View Post
    I threw a yes in. As I understand LEOSA, it is not about arresting people or exercising other Law Enforcement duties, it is about allowing people to carry concealed weapons without getting a patchwork of permits. I, personally, think a law like LEOSA should apply to all citizens, not just law enforcement officers.

    With that premise in mind, I think as many "types" of people as possible should be included in such legislation.
    I concur.

    See the part in bold if you have trouble understanding the true intent of the law.

    Biker

  14. #13
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    ^^ also good point i might just have my friend read whats posted here but am still winning the poll lmao
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  15. #14
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    no.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  16. #15
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Sure, anything that put more guns in private, law abiding citizen's hands I am all for.

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