Apocalypse When? Our enemies are contemplating attacks worse than 9/11.

This is a discussion on Apocalypse When? Our enemies are contemplating attacks worse than 9/11. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by mcp1810 From our own State Department: Who is unfamiliar with the situation? OK -- I'll take your word for it. That sure ...

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Thread: Apocalypse When? Our enemies are contemplating attacks worse than 9/11.

  1. #31
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    mcp1819=0

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    From our own State Department:

    Who is unfamiliar with the situation?
    OK -- I'll take your word for it. That sure seems a strange arrangement for two countries whose navies just went at it a couple weeks back and which don't allow (with rare exceptions) the movement of people across the border.

    So, what do they do? Ship back and forth through China, with China as the middle man for trans-shipment?

    Regarding settlements--- a lot of good pulling them ALL out of Gaza did. That is why they aren't the real issue. Removing them gains no ground toward a rational settlement.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    My take is this: They know that in a stand up fight they will never win; even the most advanced Russian and Chinese equipment can't hold a candle to ours. They also know what Admiral Yamamoto knew in WWII when he supposedly made his famous (though never verified) "a rifle behind every blade of grass" statement.

    No, I believe they have us right where they want us; they have encouraged the moral and political decay of our society, they are holding almost measureless amounts of our debt and are poised to change the world's benchmark currency (which would finish the job) and they have in place a weak-willed leader with a mind to socialize more and more sectors of our economy and private lives through increasing government controls.

    I'd say they are right on schedule, and don't need to do anything further to keep us from ruining ourselves......
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    All I am trying to say is that there are things that we need to acknowledge.
    1) U.S. policy does not operate in a vacuum. It is going to pi$$ some people off no matter what we do.
    2) Just because we think something is right does not mean the rest of the world agrees with us.
    3) None of the people we annoy have the capability to take us on in a stand up fight.
    4) With our veto power in the U.N. Security Council someone getting meaningful economic sanctions levied against us is a non starter.
    5) That the only methods left to the vast majority of those that wish us harm are unconventional warfare methods.
    6) To be shocked that those attacks are planned, executed, or just attempted is evidence of denial of #1-#5
    With our demonstrated history, saying that another governments assurances can not be believed is hypocritical.
    If we want to be able to claim the moral high ground how about putting our adversaries on the spot. Let Isreal pull back to the pre 6/4/67 border and see what Syria does. They have publicly said many times they would sign a peace treaty. Why not give them a chance? If they do it everyone is happy right? If they don't then we have proof they are liars, not just our gratuitous assertions that they are. If they sign it and break it, nuke them till they glow and shoot them in the dark.
    People say Bin Laden can't be believed. Why not? I don't recall him saying anything contradicted by his actions. IIRC he has been pretty straight forward about it.
    If we want to say that the bad guys can't be believed, we should be able to show examples in support of that.

    The world is not a Norman Rockwell painting. We are not pure as the driven snow. The sooner we can acknowledge that and understand what it is that motivates our enemies the better. Once we understand them we can decide if it would be more to our benefit to take away some of their motivation or if we should just kill them.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question HUH?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    If we want to be able to claim the moral high ground how about putting our adversaries on the spot. Let Isreal pull back to the pre 6/4/67 border and see what Syria does. They have publicly said many times they would sign a peace treaty. Why not give them a chance? If they do it everyone is happy right? If they don't then we have proof they are liars, not just our gratuitous assertions that they are. If they sign it and break it, nuke them till they glow and shoot them in the dark. People say Bin Laden can't be believed. Why not? I don't recall him saying anything contradicted by his actions. IIRC he has been pretty straight forward about it. If we want to say that the bad guys can't be believed, we should be able to show examples in support of that.

    The world is not a Norman Rockwell painting. We are not pure as the driven snow. The sooner we can acknowledge that and understand what it is that motivates our enemies the better. Once we understand them we can decide if it would be more to our benefit to take away some of their motivation or if we should just kill them.
    History is FULL of Arab duplicity, we don't have to prove a thing. As far as the bad guys being "straight forward" the Koran is also pretty specific that in war, lying to the infidel is perfectly acceptable.

    Understand what motivates them better? What are you some kind of liberal Democrat? I mean REALLY. That's exactly like that old political joke about the Republican and the Democrat being robbed and comparing their responses:

    Dem: Have I wronged this poor soul? Maybe he's homeless or he was abused. Maybe it's not his fault! I should be more comforting toward his needs....

    Repub: BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! (reload & repeat).

    I don't much care that we have to lower ourselves to their level. How can we claim any "moral high ground?" War itself is the ultimate immorality. This is a war where nobody plays according to the Marquis de Queensberry rules. They started that with the World Trade Center and the USS Cole and the other GO-zillions of unprovoked attacks we in the west have suffered since the turn of the 20th Century. Give them respite and they'll rest for the next battle. Give them land and they will (as proven in the past) use it for renewed attacks.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #35
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    MCP--you are proposing national suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    All I am trying to say is that there are things that we need to acknowledge.
    1) U.S. policy does not operate in a vacuum. It is going to pi$$ some people off no matter what we do.
    2) Just because we think something is right does not mean the rest of the world agrees with us.
    3) None of the people we annoy have the capability to take us on in a stand up fight.
    4) With our veto power in the U.N. Security Council someone getting meaningful economic sanctions levied against us is a non starter.
    5) That the only methods left to the vast majority of those that wish us harm are unconventional warfare methods.
    6) To be shocked that those attacks are planned, executed, or just attempted is evidence of denial of #1-#5
    TO this point we agree.

    With our demonstrated history, saying that another governments assurances can not be believed is hypocritical.
    If we want to be able to claim the moral high ground how about putting our adversaries on the spot. Let Isreal pull back to the pre 6/4/67 border and see what Syria does.
    That would be, most likely, an act of national suicide. That is like wondering why the US didn't pull troops out of Europe to see what the Soviets would do. Should we have gambled on Stalin and his immediate successors?

    Or, it is like wondering why we don't pull troops out of South Korea to see what the North will do. Do you think we can gamble on Dear Leader?

    Countries can't gamble on the good will of lousy neighbors, or the good will of their avowed enemies.

    Syria's Assad has it within his power to bring about peace exactly as Sadat did and as Hussein Jr. did. They chose to make peace and they got peace. Assad chooses not to do so.

    If you want to go back to pre-1967 arrangements, how about: Egypt reasserting sovereignty over Gaza (and ridding it of Hamas) and Jordan reasserting sovereignty over the West Bank.

    Since both Egypt and Jordan are now technically and de facto at peace with Israel, their stepping up to the plate in this fashion could lead to a resetting of the clock; then a new relationship not based on dreams of annihilation of your neighbor.

    Of course such a deal would fail the moment Mubarak dies. Or the moment someone shoots him as Sadat was shot. Or the moment someone kills Hussein.

    You are right. It isn't a Norman Rockwell world. It is full of evil sub-human creatures who at best can only be contained and controlled.

  7. #36
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    We DID pull out of Saudi Arabia and very little combat capability in Kuwait. Did UBL stop his Jihad on America in response to our goodwill gesture? Negative, Ghostrider.

    Pre 1967 borders would hand the Golan Heights to Syria, which is the real objective. It would provide Syria with a key geographic staging ground for large or small attacks and limit Israel's access to the Sea of Galilee, it's primary source of freshwater. Israel HAS offered to exchange land for peace in the Golan Heights, but to no avail. Besides, we see how well it worked out for Israel in Gaza.

    I suppose Israel could concede the land, pull back to 1967 borders, and stop opposing Iranian efforts to obtain nuclear weapons and just "see what happens." However, from a state survival point of view those seem to be fairly large risks. History says not to trust the Syrians or Iranians.

    Further, any model which presumes America is "just another country among many" is unrealistic. To imply the US is just like any other country and what's good for others is good for us ignores the fact we have 2M+ men under arms and are the most powerful democratic voice in the world. NATO and UN Peacekeeping operations depend on our IOPs. We are NOT just another country. You may not believe in American exceptionalism, but our allies do. Recent squandering of our power overseas and our growing weakness is causing much consternation on the other side of the Atlantic. Should America shrink on the global stage, other powers WILL step in to fill the void. Pretending there is some moral equivalence between a mideastern liberal democracy (Israel) and a tyrannical regime like Iran is not the way to win friends and influence people abroad. Unless, of course, you don't care what kind of "friends" you attract.

  8. #37
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    Look at the train terrist attack today in russia

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    We are NOT just another country. You may not believe in American exceptionalism, but our allies do.


    Well and simply stated.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    ExSoldier, History is full of our duplicity too. What makes ours any less evil than theirs?
    And understanding the enemy does not equate to sympathizing with the enemy. Knowledge is power. If we understand what our adversaries believe to be rational justification to strap bombs to themselves and blow them selves up on city streets we can begin to neutralize that justification. If not we are just going to see generation after generation of these guys coming after us. Either that or we have to kill every last one of them, including their kids.

    Holger, who is staffing....
    Air Base Eskan Village, King Abdul Aziz air base in Dohan, King Fahd air base in Taif, King Khalid air base in Khamis Mushayt and Riyadh air base in Riyadh? All operational U.S. bases as of 11/01/09 in Saudi Arabia.

    Thirty years ago the argument could be made that the pre 1967 borders were indefensible. With the weapons systems both sides have on line now that argument is moot. As far as water goes, yes that is a serious issue. With the Ashkelon desalination plant on line and more in the works, fresh water will soon be a non issue. The Sea of Galilee accounts for 30% of Israels fresh water. Ashkelon is currently supplying about 15%.
    History says not to trust Syria and Iran. It also says not to trust England, Germany, Japan, The United States, the list goes on.
    So when can we expect Israel to open its facilities to IAEA inspectors? If we are getting all bent out of shape about Iran dancing around inspections why not Israel for doing the same?
    So we have a large military. China has one bigger does that mean their values are more correct than ours are? Just because we have the power to enforce our will and our values does not mean it is morally or ethically correct to do so. As far as our NATO allies, we are talking about the same countries that have been doing billions of dollars of trade per year with both Iran and Iraq going back to the fall of the Shah. Right? The same allies that had no problem with us selling chemical weapons to Iraq to use against Iran (and also were used against the Kurds) back during the Reagan administration? The same ones that were breaking the Iraqi oil embargo?
    Somehow I don't think are losing much sleep over this.

    Hopyard, National suicide? Maybe I am not getting something here. How does Israeli occupation of the west bank protect Texas or Montana or Washington D.C? If someone can explain that to me I would really appreciate it. What vital national interest of the United States does Israel protect? I can see how the U.S. was vital to their security but not the other way around.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  11. #40
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    re: MCP

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Hopyard, National suicide? Maybe I am not getting something here. How does Israeli occupation of the west bank protect Texas or Montana or Washington D.C? .
    Pulling out of Golan to see how Assad would react would be an act of national suicide for Israel. You misinterpreted what I wrote. I did not mean it would be an act of suicide for us. I do wonder why you think we should tell someone else to take chances and risk their lives. Ehud Barak and President Clinton offered up everything you now say should be done to Arafat, and it got them an Intifada.

    Assad is a peculiar dude. He is highly educated. He was a practicing physician and eye surgeon in England. He has the intellectual skills to do the right thing and negotiate a settlement. He unfortunately lacks the internal political prowess or desire to leave his neighbor to the west, Lebanon, alone. He is the primary supplier of Hezbollah in Lebanon, which keeps the Lebanese civil war he initiated boiling constantly at a low level. Is he someone who can be trusted? He probably has an eye on Jordan as well-- you likely do not recall when his dad attempted to invade Jordan.

    Assad can't be trusted. And not one of the neighbors of Israel can be trusted--with the possible exception of Hussein of Jordan. The only thing they say that can be trusted is their promise to someday somehow wipe Israel off the map, which means mass slaughter in plain English. If you think that would be an OK result than your position makes sense. Otherwise, it is a foolish position.

    The Arabs meant what they said in 1947; they meant it in 1967; they meant it in 1973; and they mean it still today, peace treaties and all notwithstanding.

    If you had to live under that sort of threat, how much trust would you have in your neighbor's word?

    Would you turn your back on someone who just accosted you on the street and said "I'm gonna kill you, you
    )&*T(*(*&(Te343!!! ? If you had a defensive position that protected you tll the cops showed, would you leave it? Well the Arab neighbors not only made the threat, but went to war 3 times to do just that. Why would Israel give up a defensive position. It makes no sense to ask that.

    Why do you expect a nation to act differently than Israel acts and ignore the threats of its neighbors, even aid them, by giving up ground needed for defense from the BG. Such a policy wouldn't make sense in an SD situation on the street and it makes no sense in the Isreali-Palestinian conflict.

    The true pity, is that the intellect and ingenuity which exist on both sides could be turned to productive purposes and turn the region into an exceedingly prosperous place for all. But, it won't happen. It won't happen any more than the Latin countries will give up their culture of corruption to gain prosperity. It is just the way it is, and it isn't as you say, Norman Rockwell.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink My answers are inn bold and CAPS

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    ExSoldier, History is full of our duplicity too. What makes ours any less evil than theirs? BECAUSE WE WERE ATTACKED FIRST!
    And understanding the enemy does not equate to sympathizing with the enemy. Knowledge is power. If we understand what our adversaries believe to be rational justification to strap bombs to themselves and blow them selves up on city streets we can begin to neutralize that justification. If not we are just going to see generation after generation of these guys coming after us. Either that or we have to kill every last one of them, including their kids. READ THEIR KORAN AND THEN LOOK AT THEIR HISTORY (WHICH I TEACH BY THE WAY) THEY HAVE BEEN 10000% CONSISTENT SINCE THEY STARTED MARCHING ON THE WORLD ON OR ABOUT 586A.D.

    History says not to trust Syria and Iran. It also says not to trust England, Germany, Japan, The United States, the list goes on. I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYBODY ELSE BUT THE U.S.A! THAT'S WHERE MY LOYALTY LIES ON THIS EARTH. CAN YOU SAY THE SAME?
    So when can we expect Israel to open its facilities to IAEA inspectors? If we are getting all bent out of shape about Iran dancing around inspections why not Israel for doing the same? THAT IS THE ONLY REASON ISRAEL STILL EXISTS. THE WORLD KNOWS IT TOO. ANY METHOD TO DISARM THE JEWS IS WELCOME BY THE UNITED NATIONS BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM AN EASY VICTIM. JUST LIKE GUN CONTROL. THE UN ISN'T OUR FRIEND EITHER, BUT ISRAEL PRETTY MUCH IS....
    So we have a large military. China has one bigger does that mean their values are more correct than ours are? YES. COMMUNISM LIKE ISLAM IS INHERENTLY EVIL. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE WELCOME TO FIND THE DOOR TO ANOTHER PLACE TO LIVE. Just because we have the power to enforce our will and our values does not mean it is morally or ethically correct to do so. TRUE. As far as our NATO allies, we are talking about the same countries that have been doing billions of dollars of trade per year with both Iran and Iraq going back to the fall of the Shah. Right? TRUE. I ADVOCATE UNILATERAL WITHDRAWAL FROM BOTH NATO AND THE UN.

    The same allies that had no problem with us selling chemical weapons to Iraq to use against Iran (and also were used against the Kurds) back during the Reagan administration? The same ones that were breaking the Iraqi oil embargo? YUP AND THAT WAS WRONG, ALTHOUGH I DON'T THINK WE ARE THE ONES WHO GAVE IRAQ CHEMICALS.

    Hopyard, National suicide? Maybe I am not getting something here. How does Israeli occupation of the west bank protect Texas or Montana or Washington D.C? If someone can explain that to me I would really appreciate it. What vital national interest of the United States does Israel protect? I can see how the U.S. was vital to their security but not the other way around.
    My advice to you is to IGNORE HOPYARD. I do and life is so much easier. That's what the "ignore" button is for. Of course, you could ignore me too, but life would become so boring.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #42
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    There is an ignore button? I didn't know about this.....Please do tell of this feature, moderator or somebody!

    As for Exsoldier, he is right and obviously an astute student of history......Deal with this problem now, ignore it at your own peril..
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  14. #43
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    Go to your User CP (Control Panel). Under "Settings and Options" Then look for "edit ignore list" then click it.

    Add the name and click OK.
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  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Strange you should mention "our enemies". Does America stand together like they once did? ('our' meaning collective). My enemy may not be the same as yours. Our nation's enemies will remain the same, and more get on board every day. We'll take care of our own, ourselves, and those we choose to when it becomes necessary. Things are not as well defined as they used to be. History is constantly being made. On the other hand, enemies seem to be a dime a dozen. Pick the corner where you'll make your stand.
    Ram Rod is correct in that we aren't a united "we" as we have been in the past. Before 9/11 I had not felt a united sense of country for sometime, 9/11 changed that, but only briefly, and the current administration (and the previous one also), as well as the media do there best to keep it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    The muslim invasion wasn't to fill their "coffers," that was the by-product. The purpose was to spread a religion at the point of a sword. That is what we have to remember. They are STILL doing it! The World Trade Center wasn't about money it was about religion.

    Next of the eight Crusades, only the first was successful in the manner of actually pushing the muslims back and gaining territory. For the rest, the Crusaders got a royal !! A lot of it was due to internal conflicts but don't underestimate the islamic warrior. With the second attempt, the muslims regained most of the lost territory.

    They won't let me teach world history anymore because my administration KNOWS I'll speak the truth instead of the apologetics of the texts. They gingerly let me teach American Government instead. They know that in social studies, with me, THEY can't win. There is no subject I haven't taught and I'm really good so they let me teach where I love (government) and they settle for an interruption of the regularly scheduled programming.
    Absolutely correct 9-11 as with the crusades was only about religion!
    I hate to hear that somany schools systems won't allow talented teachers to teach the truth, I will never understand this.

    History is FULL of Arab duplicity, we don't have to prove a thing. As far as the bad guys being "straight forward" the Koran is also pretty specific that in war, lying to the infidel is perfectly acceptable.

    Understand what motivates them better? What are you some kind of liberal Democrat? I mean REALLY. That's exactly like that old political joke about the Republican and the Democrat being robbed and comparing their responses:

    Dem: Have I wronged this poor soul? Maybe he's homeless or he was abused. Maybe it's not his fault! I should be more comforting toward his needs....

    Repub: BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! (reload & repeat).

    I don't much care that we have to lower ourselves to their level. How can we claim any "moral high ground?" War itself is the ultimate immorality. This is a war where nobody plays according to the Marquis de Queensberry rules. They started that with the World Trade Center and the USS Cole and the other GO-zillions of unprovoked attacks we in the west have suffered since the turn of the 20th Century. Give them respite and they'll rest for the next battle. Give them land and they will (as proven in the past) use it for renewed attacks.
    Well said Ex! Giving them a chance to rest only allows time for regrouping, we must hit them hard and continue to push until the threat is gone.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question Now I need posting help...

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Go to your User CP (Control Panel). Under "Settings and Options" Then look for "edit ignore list" then click it.

    Add the name and click OK.
    Okay, I've been here five years and over four thousand posts and I don't know how to multi-quote. Shooter X was able to put some of my quotes and some of Ram Rods into one post. How do I do that? 'Scuse my ignorance but I've waited to long to ask and I always teach the only stupid question is the one not asked!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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