Why can I not carry concealed in Uniform or on Post?

This is a discussion on Why can I not carry concealed in Uniform or on Post? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I can understand both side of the story and it is a great view, but regardless of the fact, you can not drink in a ...

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Thread: Why can I not carry concealed in Uniform or on Post?

  1. #16
    Member Array 2ndAmend's Avatar
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    I can understand both side of the story and it is a great view, but regardless of the fact, you can not drink in a military uniform, that is the law now.
    Is that a new rule for the Army? Marines are allowed to drink in uniform, at the E-Club on base and out in town when in "Service" uniforms.

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  3. #17
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    black knife - aside from the obvious disdain you seem to have for the EMs (and perhaps a severe lack of self control that might serve to prohibit YOU from carrying concealed), your "logic" is fatally flawed. It's already against regulations to go into bars and drink while in uniform (with some exceptions). Allowing NON drunk, NON belligerent troops who are NOT in uniform and who have jumped through the hoops necessary to carry legally in their state of residence would have no effect on the situation you describe (which, as has been pointed out, is EXACTLY the situation that the antis claim will happen each time a state becomes "shall issue," or any other restriction is eased.)

    It's truly sad to see veterans try to take rights away from those who have fought so hard to preserve them, especially based on some boogeyman "what if" scenario that has been predicted by the Brady Bunch (and failed to appear) since the very first moves towards liberalizing concealed carry.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    There are rules stating that I can't go to places that primarily sell alcohol in BDU or ACU. I can't drink on duty.

    I've never seen anything that says I couldn't visit a pub in my greens.

    We have clothes for killing, clothes for working, clothes for working out, and clothes for partying. Just be sure to dress for the occasion.
    "and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"

    DaddyWarcrimes.com

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyhead View Post
    You don't have much faith in our soldiers!

    The argument you are using here sounds a lot like the arguments the anti-gunners use to fight concealed carry: People can't control their anger! It will be a bloodbath!

    Our soldiers generally have more restraint and self discipline than civilians. I served for a few years, spent quite a bit of time at bars with other soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen. Never once did I see a brawl break out, although there were some heated discussions

    I would think that soldiers, many of whom are more skilled and experienced with firearms than most civilians, would be less likely to cause trouble carrying concealed than most of us on this board!

    How many people do you know that carry when going to a bar, or carry while drinking? Do you hold our soldiers in such low regard that you think they would go out bar hopping and drinking while carrying?

    I find it embarrassing and aggravating that the people defending and dying for our liberties are denied those same liberties.
    +1 very well put sleepyhead

  6. #20
    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    black knife - aside from the obvious disdain you seem to have for the EMs (and perhaps a severe lack of self control that might serve to prohibit YOU from carrying concealed), your "logic" is fatally flawed. It's already against regulations to go into bars and drink while in uniform (with some exceptions). Allowing NON drunk, NON belligerent troops who are NOT in uniform and who have jumped through the hoops necessary to carry legally in their state of residence would have no effect on the situation you describe (which, as has been pointed out, is EXACTLY the situation that the antis claim will happen each time a state becomes "shall issue," or any other restriction is eased.)

    It's truly sad to see veterans try to take rights away from those who have fought so hard to preserve them, especially based on some boogeyman "what if" scenario that has been predicted by the Brady Bunch (and failed to appear) since the very first moves towards liberalizing concealed carry.
    Who said anything about being in uniform and what does that have to do with anyhting what I wrote. Read it again
    "You fight the way you Train"

  7. #21
    Member Array ethorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Warcrimes View Post
    Curious, where does it say you can't carry in uniform?
    AR 190-11, para. 4-5b
    The carrying of privately–owned weapons, explosives, or ammunition on military installations are prohibited unless authorized by the installation commander or his designated representative.

    AR 190-14, para. 2-8
    a. Military or civilian personnel may carry concealed firearms
    while performing law enforcement or security duties if carrying
    firearms openly would compromise the mission.
    b. Personnel authorized to carry concealed firearms will possess
    documentation identifying their law enforcement or security duty
    status and authorization to carry a concealed firearm. During covert
    operations, field grade commanders or provost marshals may waive
    the requirement to carry identifying documentation if such could
    compromise the mission or endanger the person carrying the weapon (requires sufficient control over operations to ensure that
    authorization and identification can be readily verified if required).
    A waiver under such situations does not preclude the requirement
    for written authorization to carry a firearm.


    FT. Bragg Policy

    North Carolina law that authorizes licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns, does not apply on the Fort Bragg reservation; thus, state-issued concealed handgun permits are not recognized or valid on Fort Bragg. Under no circumstances will the transportation of loaded or concealed handguns, shotguns, or rifles be permitted on Fort Bragg except by duly authorized law enforcement personnel or by military personnel in the performance of their official duties.


    FT. Sill Policy

    The Oklahoma concealed weapon law does not apply on Fort Sill. All personnel must follow Fort Sill policy regarding weapon use, storage and transport upon entry on to the installation. Concealed weapons are prohibited on post unless authorized by DES for law enforcement duties as prescribed in AR 190-14, para 2-8. Military personnel violating this prohibition subject themselves to disciplinary action under the UCMJ and/or administrative actions as deemed appropriate by the commander. Family members, civilian employees or other civilians violating this prohibition subject themselves to administrative action and/or criminal prosecution under applicable state, federal laws and regulations.

  8. #22
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    Slick Willy may have implemented the Executive Order (EO), but Congress sure didn't pass a bill to change it (like was done on CC in National Parks) nor did subsequent Presidents rescind that EO. Lots of blame to go around.

    I did 21 years (1980-2001 and even before there was an EO passed by Slick Willy most Base Commanders already prohibited all forms of carry on Base or while in uniform prior to that anyway.

    Makes no sense whatsoever.
    21 years and 21 days, United States Marine Corps & NRA Life Member since 1972

    "The trouble is with the increasingly widespread problem of idiots prancing around out there confusing their opinions with actual facts." peckman28

  9. #23
    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndAmend View Post
    Is that a new rule for the Army? Marines are allowed to drink in uniform, at the E-Club on base and out in town when in "Service" uniforms.
    Thats the way it was when I was in......I am glad they have not changed that too.
    "You fight the way you Train"

  10. #24
    Member Array ethorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    Thats the way it was when I was in......I am glad they have not changed that too.
    Nope not for the Army

    http://www.armyg1.army.mil/hR/unifor...%20message.pdf

    "PERSONNEL WILL NOT WEAR THE ACU IN OFF POST ESTABLISHMENTS THAT PRIMARILY SELL ALCOHOL. IF THE OFF-POST
    ESTABLISHMENT SELLS ALCOHOL AND FOOD, SOLDIERS MAY NOT WEAR THE ACU IF THEIR ACTIVITIES IN THE ESTABLISHMENT CENTER ON DRINKING ALCOHOL."

  11. #25
    Member Array 2ndAmend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethorman View Post
    Nope not for the Army

    http://www.armyg1.army.mil/hR/unifor...%20message.pdf

    "PERSONNEL WILL NOT WEAR THE ACU IN OFF POST ESTABLISHMENTS THAT PRIMARILY SELL ALCOHOL. IF THE OFF-POST
    ESTABLISHMENT SELLS ALCOHOL AND FOOD, SOLDIERS MAY NOT WEAR THE ACU IF THEIR ACTIVITIES IN THE ESTABLISHMENT CENTER ON DRINKING ALCOHOL."
    ACU? Is that your combat utilities?

  12. #26
    Member Array ethorman's Avatar
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    Yes that is the new Army Combat Uniform, the grey and green or whatever you call it color digital pattern.

  13. #27
    Member Array 2ndAmend's Avatar
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    Yes that is the new Army Combat Uniform, the grey and green or whatever you call it color digital pattern.
    Well in that case I agree.

  14. #28
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    It was illegal to carry concealed weapons on Ft. Sill, OK long before Bill Clinton became POTUS.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    but I can remember when I was in Okinawa and me and my fellow Marines went to an Airforce base to visit the E-Club....we were told that no Marines were allowed in the E-Club because of all the fights between Marines and Airmen....I can't count how many fights that took place between Marines in my own Company after drinking was involved...
    Ahh, drinking was involved! Maybe the problem is not that that service members are somehow less able than civilians to restrain themselves from committing violent acts, but rather that when people drink, they tend to lose inhibitions, and may become more confrontational? And maybe this applies to civilians and soldiers?

    Fighting in bars is not just something that soldiers do. Many civilians also get into fights in bars. However, most of them have the sense to leave their weapons at home when they go out drinking. I believe soldiers would do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    but to state that there is no violence inside the military is wrong......on every military base you have crimes as rape, murder, child molesting, stealing, drug dealing, domestic violence and even gangs....all by done by those that serve in the military.
    The argument you are using here could be used with any group of people! You seem to imply that because there are violent crimes committed by some service members, that all service members should be denied the right to keep and bear arms. Well, these same crimes are committed by civilians everywhere! By your logic, none of us should be allowed the right to keep and bear arms, because some people are criminals!

    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    If you dont' believe me contact any Provost Marshal or M.P. station and they will tell you the same thing...so don't pretend that that all military personnel are all good and responsible because you are wrong. They are human just like you and me.
    I believe you, and I couldn't agree more! I never said that all military personnel are all good and responsible. Just like civilians, some are good, some evil, and some fall somewhere between. Soldiers are human, just like you and I! And, they have the same inherent, inalienable rights that you and I have! This includes the right to keep and bear arms.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    Who said anything about being in uniform and what does that have to do with anyhting what I wrote. Read it again
    The title of the thread is "Why can't I carry IN UNIFORM..." Your scenario generally proscribes the wearing of the uniform. I do think some re-reading is in order, but not by me...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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